Evidence for God from Science

edwardmurphy wrote:I think he'll most likely end up being Mike Pence's ventriloquist dummy...

I've never seen it that way, but rather feel Trump more used Pence's conservatism to ensure more of the conservative vote. Is that just a feeling, or are there reasons why do you think Pence would end up being Trump's puppet master?

Fwiw, I too, am waiting to see. No one truly knows the future and Trump's plans except himself and God. I'm not even sure Trump really knows what he'll do on all he's said and promised. I think both sides will end up with a few surprises quite honestly.

Kurieuo wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:I think he'll most likely end up being Mike Pence's ventriloquist dummy...

I've never seen it that way, but rather feel Trump more used Pence's conservatism to ensure more of the conservative vote. Is that just a feeling, or are there reasons why do you think Pence would end up being Trump's puppet master?

I think Trump was definitely in the driver's seat during the campaign, but this is a whole new ballgame. Now he's going to have to get serious, log out of Twitter, and govern a huge, tumultuous nation through uncertain times. I've seen no evidence that he has any idea how to do that.

The plain truth is that Donald Trump doesn't know anything about history, international relations, foreign policy, global economics, politics, Constitutional law, or much of anything else, and unless he's changed really dramatically really recently he lacks the...something...to buckle down and learn. Consequently he's going to be in a lot of situations where he has to make quick decisions about things that he doesn't understand. That means that his advisors are going to be hugely influential, since they're going to be the ones translating the issues into his language, not to mention playing gate keeper and controlling which people and what information reaches him.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Trump is a moron. He's not. He's just way, way out of his depths. He doesn't have the background knowledge or the connections he needs, so he's going to be extremely reliant on the people who do. That's going to make him easy to manipulate.

The plain truth is that Donald Trump doesn't know anything about history, international relations, foreign policy, global economics, politics, Constitutional law,

This is true but then again very few people in politics do ( if they did you guys would not be in the hole you are in right now BEFORE trump).

I don't think that many people enter the White House knowing everything that they need to know, but Trump is in a class of his own.

Look at his predecessors:

Obama - fairly new to politics, but taught Constitutional law and was willing to bust his ass to try and fill the gaps in his knowledge.

Bush - executive experience as governor of Texas

Clinton - executive experience as governor of Arkansas

Bush - Congressman, ambassador, CIA director

Reagan - executive experience as governor of California

Carter - executive experience as gover nor of Georgia

And so on and so on. None of those guys knew everything, but they were at least solid in one area. Trump is a blank slate.

edwardmurphy wrote:I don't think that many people enter the White House knowing everything that they need to know, but Trump is in a class of his own.

Look at his predecessors:

Obama - fairly new to politics, but taught Constitutional law and was willing to bust his *** to try and fill the gaps in his knowledge.

Bush - executive experience as governor of Texas

Clinton - executive experience as governor of Arkansas

Bush - Congressman, ambassador, CIA director

Reagan - executive experience as governor of California

Carter - executive experience as gover nor of Georgia

And so on and so on. None of those guys knew everything, but they were at least solid in one area. Trump is a blank slate.

True, but some can argue, successfully, that this is not a bad thing per say.
Especially considering the mess that experienced politicians have made.

Perhaps in knowing his areas of inexperience, trump will hire and listen to those with proven track records at getting things done.

I think the claim that the politicians have made a mess of every thing is really overblown. The US certainly has it's issues, but it's not the steaming pile of crap that Trump describes.

Economic changes have left a lot of people hurting, but that's nothing new. Every time new technology comes about, whether it's cotton gins, industrial farming, or automated factories, the people who did those jobs get the shaft. That's capitalism. It's been a recurring pattern since the dawn of the Industrial Age. Every time someone suggests that we do something about it the moneyed elite start screaming "Socialism!!!" and that's that.

Politicians can't fix our societal ills on their own, and neither can neophytes like Trump.

edwardmurphy wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:I think he'll most likely end up being Mike Pence's ventriloquist dummy...

I've never seen it that way, but rather feel Trump more used Pence's conservatism to ensure more of the conservative vote. Is that just a feeling, or are there reasons why do you think Pence would end up being Trump's puppet master?

I think Trump was definitely in the driver's seat during the campaign, but this is a whole new ballgame. Now he's going to have to get serious, log out of Twitter, and govern a huge, tumultuous nation through uncertain times. I've seen no evidence that he has any idea how to do that.

The plain truth is that Donald Trump doesn't know anything about history, international relations, foreign policy, global economics, politics, Constitutional law, or much of anything else, and unless he's changed really dramatically really recently he lacks the...something...to buckle down and learn. Consequently he's going to be in a lot of situations where he has to make quick decisions about things that he doesn't understand. That means that his advisors are going to be hugely influential, since they're going to be the ones translating the issues into his language, not to mention playing gate keeper and controlling which people and what information reaches him.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Trump is a moron. He's not. He's just way, way out of his depths. He doesn't have the background knowledge or the connections he needs, so he's going to be extremely reliant on the people who do. That's going to make him easy to manipulate.

The things you bring up about not knowing about history,foreign policy,etc really don't matter like the media portrays because what matters is Trump's agenda he ran on getting done. Despite what you liberals think Trump's policies will work making everything you've brought up irrelevant. This is one of the main reasons I supported Trump,it was his agenda and what he ran on including fixing the inner cities in the black community,but it is everything Trump ran on to do.I can't think of one thing Trump ran on to do that won't work. You are still listening to the media that was as wrong as wrong can be about this election,who have absolutely no credibility and so you have been brainwashed by all of this anti-Trump info out there and you are going to continue to be wrong about Trump and his agenda if you continue to listen them. Ted Çruz for Attorney General? Would be awesome too.

edwardmurphy wrote:I think the claim that the politicians have made a mess of every thing is really overblown. The US certainly has it's issues, but it's not the steaming pile of crap that Trump describes.

Economic changes have left a lot of people hurting, but that's nothing new. Every time new technology comes about, whether it's cotton gins, industrial farming, or automated factories, the people who did those jobs get the shaft. That's capitalism. It's been a recurring pattern since the dawn of the Industrial Age. Every time someone suggests that we do something about it the moneyed elite start screaming "Socialism!!!" and that's that.

Politicians can't fix our societal ills on their own, and neither can neophytes like Trump.

Well, record debt and deficit.
Horrific perception of the US abroad.
The propensity to repeat the same mistakes over and over.
Number 1 target for terrorism.

Sure this has been the case for what seems like ages BUT that kind of is the point.

And no, it isn't just the USA of course.

Here are some liberal media conspiracy theory,lies and myths that you should reject.
1. Hillary won the popular vote and now we need to get rid of the electoral college. This is not true,not all of the votes have been counted yet.There are 4 million votes in California alone that have not yet been counted this includes states like Texas,Florida,etc so do not believe Hillary won the popular vote.

2. Steve Bannon is an anti-semite. This is the liberals accusing political foes as what they are the truth is it is liberals that are anti-semite just ask them about Israel vs the Palestinians and you'll see it is they that are anti-semite concerning Israel and the Jews. Steve Bannon supports Israel and the Jews.

To understand the sentiments behind Steve Bannon as an anti-Semite, I think it is more accurate to say that Steve Bannon is a Zionist. Zionists generally do not like Orthodox Jewish religious beliefs which are seen as a threat to the state of Israel.

Indeed, it were those who were Zionistic, wanting their homeland back by force, who stood by and allowed their brothers and sisters to go into the death camps while they negotiated with the West have the state of Israel returned, and thereby displacing the Palestinians.

It isn't as far-fetched once one understands the internal dispute of Israel being taken back by force, versus God giving Israel back to His people. That is an internal Jewish dispute. In any case, Bannon isn't anti-Semitic, such language is just a low blow smear and rhetoric from the left as I see it.

Well, record debt and deficit.
Horrific perception of the US abroad.
The propensity to repeat the same mistakes over and over.
Number 1 target for terrorism.

Sure this has been the case for what seems like ages BUT that kind of is the point.

And no, it isn't just the USA of course.

I agree that all of those things are problems, but blaming them all on politicians makes no sense to me.

The deficit, for example, really exploded when Reagan massively increased military spending while lowering taxes, yet a lot of conservatives worship him. And in his defense, the huge increase in military spending did bankrupt the Soviets and end the Cold War. So I guess the question is whether or not it was worth it. That's a complex question.

The perception issue is unfortunate. The Bush Administration really hurt our national prestige. That neocon obsession with nation-building worked out poorly for all involved. Obama's failure to hold Syria to his Red Line threat made it worse. Still, I don't think it's fair to ignore all of the good decisions made by politicians. And since we're talking about how a neophyte might do things better, let's take a second remember that hawkish Bush-era neo-con and Putin enemy John Bolton is on the short list for SecState. Think that would help our national prestige?

The propensity for repeating mistakes is another way of saying that our way of doing things is not a good way. That may be true. I guess it depends on how you look at it. For example, our troubled relationship with Iran goes back to our decision to overthrow an elected government for nationalizing the foreign oil companies that had taken over their oil fields. Should we have sat on our hands and let them do that?

So yeah, you've identified legitimate concerns, but I think it's important to remember that every decision is made for a reason, and sometimes blowback is something that we just have to expect and deal with.

My other concern with Trump is his tendency to be kind of clannish and revenge-minded. We're just coming out of the nastiest campaign in modern history. If Trump wants to be effective then he needs to mend fences with key members of both parties. So far it looks like he's more focused on rewarding supporters.

His pick for SecState - Guiliani or Bolton - are both controversial. Bolton is really hawkish and has ties to the Bush-era foreign policy didasters. Guiliani is a polarizing figure with a lot of skeletons. Neither is a sensible choice.

Ted Cruz for AG is another controversial pick, and is likely to pis off both sides of the aisle.

I've also read that Sarah Palin is being considered to run the EPA. That would enrage a lot of people, and frankly anyone who quits their job as Governor to become a pundit/reality TV star doesn't deserve to run anything.

Finally, his sudden decision to dump Christie seems to have resulted in a lot of chaos in his transition team. There seems to be a major powet struggle going on within his team. That bodes poorly for the future.

Long story short, I think he's in over his head.

Ed,
You state:

I agree that all of those things are problems, but blaming them all on politicians makes no sense to me

.

Then go about naming the names of politicians that, along with their respect parties and other politicians, brought about those things.

My God. Stop whatever you are doing and take ten minutes to read this. Again, anyone who says Trump is a racist or anything nutty like that is quite literally brainwashed. The evidence is ovewhelming that such people have simply been played. I mean, sheesh.

There are very real things we can criticize Trump on. And I hope people do criticize him on those real issues. But this idiotic nonsense about him being a racist and suct is just stupid. And it's unhelpful, because it does run the real risk of letting him get away with things he really ought not get away with. Make the wrong argument and look like the tool you are, then when you make the right argument you no longer have any credibility. In short, stop crying wolf. Read. Get educated. Respond to Trump correctly, please.

Jac3510 wrote:There are very real things we can criticize Trump on. And I hope people do criticize him on those real issues. But this idiotic nonsense about him being a racist and suct is just stupid. And it's unhelpful, because it does run the real risk of letting him get away with things he really ought not get away with. Make the wrong argument and look like the tool you are, then when you make the right argument you no longer have any credibility. In short, stop crying wolf. Read. Get educated. Respond to Trump correctly, please.

Hey there, Jacass.

I'm guessing this is aimed at me, since "tool" seems to be your pet name for me. If that's the case then I'm puzzled. I don't recall ever calling Trump a racist. I've said that he uses dog whistles and embraces the ugliest aspects of American populism, but that just makes him ambitions, amoral, and cynical. My main criticism has always been that he's an unethical, know-nothing liar and a demagogue with no clue how to deliver on any of the promises that he's made.

I'm not prepared to move to Canada so I hope that I'm wrong but I haven't seen a whole lot to justify optimism. The infrastructure program has potential if he figures out how to pay for it. Mitt Romney is a much better choice for Secretary of State than Guiliani or Bolton, so maybe he's listening to some voices of reason. The rumor that he tried to get security clearance for his kids seems to be false, so there's something. On the other hand, it seems like his team is in chaos and he hasn't even started the job.

We shall see...