If you understand Ascetics, they're kind of like Buddhist monks in a way, but perhaps not as extreme in that they don't try to see just as much beauty in a rock as say a bird and other odd things.Philip wrote:Ness: I dont think anyone is getting up on a soap.box.tho?
I agree, maybe not the best way of saying that - wasn't meant to jump on K - only on the key point about whether it is automatically sin, and that it's easy for married people to look down on it (NOW). Sorry if I missed your meaning, K.
Ness: Self control is a good thing. And if mastirbation controls us then that isnt healthy.
This is true - except there might be an exception for left-handed people (you know those "creative" types).I am RIGHT-handed
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True as well. Yep, being controlled by whatever one's downstairs urges is not good. So, like anything else, beyond moderation and sensible, practical use, it can become a real problem. Lust: ALWAYS sin!Ness: That is not the same as saying M is a S
Not that I've looked into Asceticism deeply, but denying the carnal self, having complete self control, not having pride, unclean thoughts and the like would be seen as all very positive things. And, well, I see that they are to are large degree good virtues to strive for.
The heart of the issue I think, when Christians normally raise masturbation or the like, is they're striving for absolute perfection. They want to be pleasing to God, and then they entangle themselves all up in the Law, even their own laws, in pursuit of turning from their former self. Think of Martin Luther when he was a monk and would whip himself for an evil thought. Then he truly found Christ and understood the Gospel and was set free from trying to purify himself.
Whether or not it's a sin is a different category of question, one I avoided answering, in my "soap box" post. I think it's a wrong way for Christians to look at matters.