Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:30 am**

OK so moving on we come to Genesis 1.

But before we start we need to recognize what we already realize before we start Genesis 1.We know from 2nd Peter 3:3-7 that he is referring us to Genesis 1:2 and not Noah's flood like bible scholars today claim.We know that the "world that then was" perished in water and since there was a former world that perished in water was before Genesis 1:2 happened we know the earth is old and not young before we even get into Genesis 1.

And we also know that all things have not gone on continually since the beginning of the creation because there was a gap when every thing stopped or ceased for a time and we can understand why reading Genesis 1:2 why everything stopped and ceased for a time. We also can see that the earth is in water in Genesis 1:2 and that there is no light so we could even know it was frozen because there was no light.Everything had stopped and ceased after the "world that then was" pershed in water and this effected the heavens also because there is no light.

We also have good reason to believe that Peter himself was a Gap Theorist who understood why all things have not gone on continually as they were from the beginning of the creation. And since Peter was taught by Jesus Christ himself we can then assume that Jesus knew about the Gap Theory also.We'll get into more about this about Jesus understanding the Gap doctrine later when we get back to the New Testament.

We also know the difference between the words MADE and CREATED too and know that the heavens and earth are old and not young because of the phrase "these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth".

We can blend these into to Genesis 1 once we get to it.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:02 am**

ACB, I must ask, what is the purpose of you devoting so much time and thought to GAP theory? Do you see it spiritually changing anyone? Do you think it changes any unbeliever to becoming a person of faith? It should give you considerable pause that the most conservative, inerrancy supporting, scholars theologians, either supportive of or open to an old earth view of Scripture, overwhelmingly reject it. This means you are obsessed with a belief that the vast majority of the most conservative, Jesus-loving, most Scripturally knowledgeable Christians around the world reject it. What does that say about your ability to productively use it in any helpful way? Who is coming to faith because of it? Who is beginning to see Scripture as God's word through it? If the answer is next to none - which it obviously is - then I would say your time is far better spent elsewhere. You also must ask yourself that if it is true, why God has not opened up the minds of the leaders, theologians and scholars of the church to this truth? It surely shows that God doesn't see it as important, even IF true, as He's not revealed or used it for the edification of the Church, or as a witness to unbelievers. Lastly, I'd also say it is killing your credibility in some ways - and that this is perhaps most true amongst your fellow evangelical Christians should get your attention. At the very least it should tell you that constantly obsessing over it is damaging to your testimony. I say this as someone who deeply cares about you - you're obviously a very nice fellow who takes his faith very seriously. No one here is trying to hurt your feelings. But we do care about truth.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:34 am**

I admire ACB for his tenacity and spunk on this subject and he deserves a pat on the back for defending the GAP Theory!

Though I don't agree with GAP and treat it the same with all creation theories, I will say well done to ACB... well done!
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Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:56 am**

Philip wrote:ACB, I must ask, what is the purpose of you devoting so much time and thought to GAP theory? Do you see it spiritually changing anyone? Do you think it changes any unbeliever to becoming a person of faith? It should give you considerable pause that the most conservative, inerrancy supporting, scholars theologians, either supportive of or open to an old earth view of Scripture, overwhelmingly reject it. This means you are obsessed with a belief that the vast majority of the most conservative, Jesus-loving, most Scripturally knowledgeable Christians around the world reject it. What does that say about your ability to productively use it in any helpful way? Who is coming to faith because of it? Who is beginning to see Scripture as God's word through it? If the answer is next to none - which it obviously is - then I would say your time is far better spent elsewhere. You also must ask yourself that if it is true, why God has not opened up the minds of the leaders, theologians and scholars of the church to this truth? It surely shows that God doesn't see it as important, even IF true, as He's not revealed or used it for the edification of the Church, or as a witness to unbelievers. Lastly, I'd also say it is killing your credibility in some ways - and that this is perhaps most true amongst your fellow evangelical Christians should get your attention. At the very least it should tell you that constantly obsessing over it is damaging to your testimony. I say this as someone who deeply cares about you - you're obviously a very nice fellow who takes his faith very seriously. No one here is trying to hurt your feelings. But we do care about truth.

I know very well that bible scholars today reject the Gap Theory but I also know that in the past the majority of bible scholars accepted the Gap Theory. Yes,things have changed since about the 1970's but the majority has not always been against the Gap Doctrine.We can read commentary in bibles to know this is true.As a matter of fact most of the annotations in our bibles today came from bible scholars that accepted the Gap Doctrine.There was even a time when the majority of bible believing Christians accepted the Gap Doctrine.However instead of believing what man says I'm just going to let the bible do the talking in english the language it was translated into for us.If you read through this thread so far I am basing everything on what the bible says as much as possible and the inference we get from it based on what it says.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:20 am**

ACB is the "General Custer" of the Gap Theory.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:31 am**

B. W. wrote:I admire ACB for his tenacity and spunk on this subject and he deserves a pat on the back for defending the GAP Theory!

Though I don't agree with GAP and treat it the same with all creation theories, I will say well done to ACB... well done!
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I try to do the same with other creation theories also that I disagree with.I just see them as different interpretations and I do not equate them with the gospel.It is not even really all that important to me which one a person accepts as long as they have been saved by Jesus,however only one can be right out of them all and I believe this one is right.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:59 am**

ACB: I also know that in the past the majority of bible scholars accepted the Gap Theory. Yes,things have changed since about the 1970's but the majority has not always been against the Gap Doctrine.

So, WHY do you think the conservative, evangelical, inerrantist scholars now reject it? I'm not speaking of those who question much of its authenticity, or that change their views and theories like the wind.

But the bigger question is, why be hyper-focused on any unprovable theory, for which there would be no physical or geologic evidences (all such would have been destroyed). There is also not any clear Biblical teaching upon this - doesn't that seem incredibly odd? God destroyed the world, gives the vaguest of obscure hints of such (which most theologians deny), and yet we're not given any details, certainty, or reasons for such? Really, this supposed previous world would be like the proverbial tree that falls in the forest - yet a tiny few are obsessed with this mythical "tree" - for what reason? In every instance where God references some great judgment upon the earth or a particular people, when referenced, we see not only what the punishment was, but also the REASONS for it. Here, with GAP, there is nothing but speculation over the assertion that there is a hint of uncertain shadows. The main reason the theory originated seems to have been to accommodate science's original teachings of an ancient world and universe. Note that not only do the vast majority of qualified theologians and linguists (of ancient Hebrew) deny this, but also the scientists and astronomers. And yet, a few are obsessed with the myth of an unseen, undetectable vapor. HUGE waste of time, IMHO!

To me, it's like my speculation that maybe, MAYBE God put other physical beings in the universe, somewhere, likely so far away as to be undetectable (so that they are irrelevant for us to know about), or that perhaps He has created other times and other physical things and worlds, totally unconnected our world, universe or time, and those things had their purpose and time - as He is eternal, why would we think He's only created in the physical spectrum during the days of our universe's creation? Yep, it's an interesting idea, as one contemplates a God who has always existed and Who is by His nature creative Being. But guess what, that is pure speculation that is meaningless - and it could be totally wrong. Which is why I'm not obsessed or always talking about such pure speculation. And if God had wanted us to clearly know about such things, He would have made it known to us. Same thing for GT. If it were in the least important to US, or beneficial for our knowledge, don't you think God would have made it obvious? So, it's clearly not important to know anything about - so, there are far more important things to be researching, praying over, and discussing.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:35 pm**

Philip wrote:
ACB: I also know that in the past the majority of bible scholars accepted the Gap Theory. Yes,things have changed since about the 1970's but the majority has not always been against the Gap Doctrine.
So, WHY do you think the conservative, evangelical, inerrantist scholars now reject it? I'm not speaking of those who question much of its authenticity, or that change their views and theories like the wind.

But the bigger question is, why be hyper-focused on any unprovable theory, for which there would be no physical or geologic evidences (all such would have been destroyed). There is also not any clear Biblical teaching upon this - doesn't that seem incredibly odd? God destroyed the world, gives the vaguest of obscure hints of such (which most theologians deny), and yet we're not given any details, certainty, or reasons for such? Really, this supposed previous world would be like the proverbial tree that falls in the forest - yet a tiny few are obsessed with this mythical "tree" - for what reason? In every instance where God references some great judgment upon the earth or a particular people, when referenced, we see not only what the punishment was, but also the REASONS for it. Here, with GAP, there is nothing but speculation over the assertion that there is a hint of uncertain shadows. The main reason the theory originated seems to have been to accommodate science's original teachings of an ancient world and universe. Note that not only do the vast majority of qualified theologians and linguists (of ancient Hebrew) deny this, but also the scientists and astronomers. And yet, a few are obsessed with the myth of an unseen, undetectable vapor. HUGE waste of time, IMHO!

To me, it's like my speculation that maybe, MAYBE God put other physical beings in the universe, somewhere, likely so far away as to be undetectable (so that they are irrelevant for us to know about), or that perhaps He has created other times and other physical things and worlds, totally unconnected our world, universe or time, and those things had their purpose and time - as He is eternal, why would we think He's only created in the physical spectrum during the days of our universe's creation? Yep, it's an interesting idea, as one contemplates a God who has always existed and Who is by His nature creative Being. But guess what, that is pure speculation that is meaningless - and it could be totally wrong. Which is why I'm not obsessed or always talking about such pure speculation. And if God had wanted us to clearly know about such things, He would have made it known to us. Same thing for GT. If it were in the least important to US, or beneficial for our knowledge, don't you think God would have made it obvious? So, it's clearly not important to know anything about - so, there are far more important things to be researching, praying over, and discussing.

There are many things in the bible that we know are true but the bible does'nt say it specifically. It is by bible study,searching and seeking that we are able to put the pieces of the puzzle together in order to realize a bible truth.I could say the exact same thing you have said about all other creation interpretaions that the bible does not say clearly and it is by interpretation that those are believed to be true and since nobody has a 100% authority on their interpretation when we discuss them all we can really do is try to show why we believe it is true.That is what I'm trying to do. People reject the Gap Theory but alot of times it is not based on what the bible says but their own biased opinion.We all have biases that we must guard against when it comes to the word of God and who is right and who is wrong. I have clearly explained why there is a gap if 2nd Peter 3:3-7 is referring us to Genesis 1:2. It does not matter that you disagree,the fact is if it is referring to Genesis 1:2 then I am right and it does not matter what man says about it.We can read our bible in english and pick up on what it is inferencing and it is not that hard to do. We do not need man to tell us what it is saying.You are rejecting the Gap but you have not even addreseed how you can say the time before Noah's flood was a different world than this world and have not addressed how you can claim that the world perished in Noah's flood when you know it did'nt. Nobody who has read the bible believes that. Because we know Adam and Eve were apart of this world. This means there was a world that did exist that did indeed perish like the bible says and if true? I'm right.

Posted: **Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:33 pm**

OK so let's apply what we've learned to Genesis 1 as we go through it.Because when we do you're going to see how much more is revealed when we do it.So keep these things in mind as we go through Genesis 1.

1.The heavens and earth are old and not young.
2.There was a gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 2.
3.There was a "world that then was" that existed on the earth that perished in water before Genesis 1:2.
4.This flood effected the heavens also and this is why there is no light and only darkness.
5.All things have not gone on as they were since the beginning of the creation like scoffers claim.
6.There is a difference between the words made and created that Moses wanted us to realize.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This was ex nihilo creation,bringing the entire universe into existence along with the earth perfectly and the way God wanted it.It was all new.The heavens and earth are old and not young because there were generations of the heavens and of the earth.And we know that there was a world that perished in waters on the earth also.To be honest, this is really the only real creating God does in the whole bible,everything else is just using already pre-existing materials to restore and work with to either make or create new things.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.

I don't even have to change "was without form and void" to "became without form and void" although there is already ample evidence to do it,but I digress, not needed,and I don't like the idea of changing the meaning of words when it comes to God's word.Revelation 22:18-19.We already know that there was a world that perished in water and we can see what it led to.It led to a gap of time when all things ceased and stopped for a time and we can see it effected the heavens also because there is no light.The earth is "out of and in the water" like Peter told us earlier.The earth is in waters(the deep)and frozen because of no sun light or star light,just darkness.This is why the earth is in the state it is in.It is uninhabitable for life and so God has to do work on it to restore it.The earth is old and not young.Job 22:18:8-11 "But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it.Thou hast sent widows away empty, and arms of the fatherless have been broken.Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee; Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee; Or darkness, that thou candst not see; and abundance of waters cover thee." Job 22:15 " Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown wth a flood." Neanderthals and Hominids? A pre-Adamite race of beings that were not man.2nd Peter 3:5-6 "For this they willingy are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was being overflowed with water perished."

Genesis 1:3-5. 3.And God said,Let there be light: and there was light.4.And God saw the light,that it was good: and God divided the light from darkness.5. And God called the light Day,and the darkness he called Night.And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Based on the darkness that exists we already know Lucifer had already rebelled against God but also a third of the angels Revelation 12:7-9.Lucifer is now Satan,the Devil.So he had already been Lucifer and had already rebelled.2nd Corinthians 4:6 "For God,who commanded the light to shine into darkness,hath shined in our hearts,to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." This is talking about Genesis 1:2-3.We already have Satan's kingdom already established.This is why no angels are created in Genesis 1.This gets skimmed over by other creation interpretations that teach this was the beginning.Why were no angels created including Satan that could rebel against God in Genesis 1 if this was the beginning?We will go into a further bible study about Lucifer later and how we know he had something to do with judgment being poured out that caused the world to perish in water.He ruled over the earth until he rebelled but we'll get into this later.But we already know that he has rebelled against God because of the darkness.Job 38:4-7 "4.Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare,if thou hast understanding.5.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD(angels) shouted together." Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the SONS OF GOD(angels) came to present themselves before the Lord,and Satan came also among them." So we know that whenever in the beginning when God first created the earth angels already existed and they shouted and celebrated it.We can also assume this was before Lucifer rebelled against God.We will get more into Lucifer later.

Genesis 1:6-8 " 6.And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters,and let it divide the waters from the waters.7.And God MADE the firmament,and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8.And God called the firmament
Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

OK the earth is in water as we already know and so God divides these waters with the firmament.This is God removing the waters the earth is in,off of it.The firmament is not the earth's atmosphere like certian creationists claim.Think of the earth in water and God makes the firmament in the midst of the waters and the waters are divided as the firmament is raised all the way up to the third heaven.The firmament is the crystal sea, the hard dome that separates us from heaven where God is.This is the verses that tell about the firmament,the crystal sea and hard dome.Job 37:10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened."Job 37:18 "Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass." Job 38:30 "The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen." 1st Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."Revelation 4:6 "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." There are three heavens the bible tells us about and not just one.God made all three heavens at this time and the crystal sea also.2nd Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,(whether in the body I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
This is why God does not say it is good on the second day too,it is because the crystal sea seperates us from God.Also notice the word MADE and not create so this is just God working on this restoring the the firmament.Notice God is working on the earth first like Genesis 2:4 says when it says "in the day that the LORD God MADE the earth and the heavens.God is working on the earth restoring it and removing these waters off of the earth,then he'll work on the heavens.

Genesis 1:9-13 "9.And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass,the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.10.And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering of the waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good.11.And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.13. And the evening and the morning were the third day."

This is God working on the earth restoring it and making it habitable again so that he can create man and woman.This shows that God is establishing that kinds will produce after its kind.God is establishing reproduction.

I will finish Genesis 1 later. Time for a break.

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:10 am**

abelcainsbrother wrote:Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.

I reckon if the earth was created but without form (Gen1:2), the scriptures may be referring to the elements that were to become the form of the earth in the void which in the beginning was empty space.

Scientists are suggesting some amazing things these days... Look at this snip from an article.

"This research is interesting as it seems our universe, even in its first billion years, nurtured a rich environment for H2O production in clouds that were comparatively oxygen poor. This then set the stage for later epochs when later stars began forming planets where water was already present. And now we live in a universe apparently filled with water that just happens to be the key component for life as we know it."

http://www.seeker.com/when-did-the-univ ... 81622.html
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2015-14

Hence the earth/firmament was separated out of the waters.

I didn't mean to interrupt your Gap Theory lesson... Just saying, this is a thought I have played with in an attempt to validate scripture with science........

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:11 pm**

Mazzy wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.
I reckon if the earth was created but without form (Gen1:2), the scriptures may be referring to the elements that were to become the form of the earth in the void which in the beginning was empty space.

Scientists are suggesting some amazing things these days... Look at this snip from an article.

"This research is interesting as it seems our universe, even in its first billion years, nurtured a rich environment for H2O production in clouds that were comparatively oxygen poor. This then set the stage for later epochs when later stars began forming planets where water was already present. And now we live in a universe apparently filled with water that just happens to be the key component for life as we know it."

http://www.seeker.com/when-did-the-univ ... 81622.html
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2015-14

Hence the earth/firmament was separated out of the waters.

I didn't mean to interrupt your Gap Theory lesson... Just saying, this is a thought I have played with in an attempt to validate scripture with science........

I wonder how much of this water was in the solar system? It covered earth enough to make the firmament, but what about elsewhere? Some interpretations involve the universe being around with planets, stars, etc in Genesis 1:1, and that the first chapter deals with an earth frame of reference. This would mean that much of the water was at earth, and maybe other worlds, and not the whole cosmos like some think. Mind you that a billion years ago, and even 4 billion where the earth is thought to be first formed, the universe was much smaller than it is now. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 13316.html
It's amazing how much detail and work God put into the universe, yet die and be resurrected for small, apparently insignificant humans. That should say something.

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:01 pm**

Mazzy wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.
I reckon if the earth was created but without form (Gen1:2), the scriptures may be referring to the elements that were to become the form of the earth in the void which in the beginning was empty space.

Scientists are suggesting some amazing things these days... Look at this snip from an article.

"This research is interesting as it seems our universe, even in its first billion years, nurtured a rich environment for H2O production in clouds that were comparatively oxygen poor. This then set the stage for later epochs when later stars began forming planets where water was already present. And now we live in a universe apparently filled with water that just happens to be the key component for life as we know it."

http://www.seeker.com/when-did-the-univ ... 81622.html
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2015-14

Hence the earth/firmament was separated out of the waters.

I didn't mean to interrupt your Gap Theory lesson... Just saying, this is a thought I have played with in an attempt to validate scripture with science........

Thanks for the links and I have seen similar articles about this before.People don't realize it but new discoveries are actually confirming Gap creationism correct,however because everything is looked at from an evolution perspective we have to read between the lines when it comes to the evidence.It is just using the new discoveries but coming to a different conclusion that is slowly confirming Gap creationism correct.Some new discoveries have not trickled through science yet but when they do could change things like the idea the earth was a molten lava hell in its beginning could be changed based on what zircon crystals are revealing.This would be important to Gap creationism because we do not believe the earth was without form and void in the beginning when God created it but it became that way.We believe the earth was perfect in its beginning the way God wanted it.We do not accept this idea God created the earth a mess and then decorated it as he created it.The angels shouted and rejoiced when God created the earth in the beginning.However in this thread I'm just focusing on the many reasons biblically we believe this interpretation is the correct one.I'm not really getting into evidence in this thread.This is just about the bible and what it says that leads us to believe this interpretation is correct.

Posted: **Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:12 am**

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Mazzy wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.
I reckon if the earth was created but without form (Gen1:2), the scriptures may be referring to the elements that were to become the form of the earth in the void which in the beginning was empty space.

Scientists are suggesting some amazing things these days... Look at this snip from an article.

"This research is interesting as it seems our universe, even in its first billion years, nurtured a rich environment for H2O production in clouds that were comparatively oxygen poor. This then set the stage for later epochs when later stars began forming planets where water was already present. And now we live in a universe apparently filled with water that just happens to be the key component for life as we know it."

http://www.seeker.com/when-did-the-univ ... 81622.html
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2015-14

Hence the earth/firmament was separated out of the waters.

I didn't mean to interrupt your Gap Theory lesson... Just saying, this is a thought I have played with in an attempt to validate scripture with science........
Thanks for the links and I have seen similar articles about this before.People don't realize it but new discoveries are actually confirming Gap creationism correct,however because everything is looked at from an evolution perspective we have to read between the lines when it comes to the evidence.It is just using the new discoveries but coming to a different conclusion that is slowly confirming Gap creationism correct.Some new discoveries have not trickled through science yet but when they do could change things like the idea the earth was a molten lava hell in its beginning could be changed based on what zircon crystals are revealing.This would be important to Gap creationism because we do not believe the earth was without form and void in the beginning when God created it but it became that way.We believe the earth was perfect in its beginning the way God wanted it.We do not accept this idea God created the earth a mess and then decorated it as he created it.The angels shouted and rejoiced when God created the earth in the beginning.However in this thread I'm just focusing on the many reasons biblically we believe this interpretation is the correct one.I'm not really getting into evidence in this thread.This is just about the bible and what it says that leads us to believe this interpretation is correct.

Ok. I understand. You are using this thread to tell people how you think the Genesis creation account aligns with Gap creationism. If you remember, I'd appreciate it if you send me a message if you get to present the scientific evidence.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:25 pm**

abelcainsbrother wrote:OK so let's apply what we've learned to Genesis 1 as we go through it.Because when we do you're going to see how much more is revealed when we do it.So keep these things in mind as we go through Genesis 1.

1.The heavens and earth are old and not young.
2.There was a gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 2.
3.There was a "world that then was" that existed on the earth that perished in water before Genesis 1:2.
4.This flood effected the heavens also and this is why there is no light and only darkness.
5.All things have not gone on as they were since the beginning of the creation like scoffers claim.
6.There is a difference between the words made and created that Moses wanted us to realize.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This was ex nihilo creation,bringing the entire universe into existence along with the earth perfectly and the way God wanted it.It was all new.The heavens and earth are old and not young because there were generations of the heavens and of the earth.And we know that there was a world that perished in waters on the earth also.To be honest, this is really the only real creating God does in the whole bible,everything else is just using already pre-existing materials to restore and work with to either make or create new things.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.

I don't even have to change "was without form and void" to "became without form and void" although there is already ample evidence to do it,but I digress, not needed,and I don't like the idea of changing the meaning of words when it comes to God's word.Revelation 22:18-19.We already know that there was a world that perished in water and we can see what it led to.It led to a gap of time when all things ceased and stopped for a time and we can see it effected the heavens also because there is no light.The earth is "out of and in the water" like Peter told us earlier.The earth is in waters(the deep)and frozen because of no sun light or star light,just darkness.This is why the earth is in the state it is in.It is uninhabitable for life and so God has to do work on it to restore it.The earth is old and not young.Job 22:18:8-11 "But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it.Thou hast sent widows away empty, and arms of the fatherless have been broken.Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee; Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee; Or darkness, that thou candst not see; and abundance of waters cover thee." Job 22:15 " Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown wth a flood." Neanderthals and Hominids? A pre-Adamite race of beings that were not man.2nd Peter 3:5-6 "For this they willingy are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was being overflowed with water perished."

Genesis 1:3-5. 3.And God said,Let there be light: and there was light.4.And God saw the light,that it was good: and God divided the light from darkness.5. And God called the light Day,and the darkness he called Night.And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Based on the darkness that exists we already know Lucifer had already rebelled against God but also a third of the angels Revelation 12:7-9.Lucifer is now Satan,the Devil.So he had already been Lucifer and had already rebelled.2nd Corinthians 4:6 "For God,who commanded the light to shine into darkness,hath shined in our hearts,to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." This is talking about Genesis 1:2-3.We already have Satan's kingdom already established.This is why no angels are created in Genesis 1.This gets skimmed over by other creation interpretations that teach this was the beginning.Why were no angels created including Satan that could rebel against God in Genesis 1 if this was the beginning?We will go into a further bible study about Lucifer later and how we know he had something to do with judgment being poured out that caused the world to perish in water.He ruled over the earth until he rebelled but we'll get into this later.But we already know that he has rebelled against God because of the darkness.Job 38:4-7 "4.Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare,if thou hast understanding.5.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD(angels) shouted together." Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the SONS OF GOD(angels) came to present themselves before the Lord,and Satan came also among them." So we know that whenever in the beginning when God first created the earth angels already existed and they shouted and celebrated it.We can also assume this was before Lucifer rebelled against God.We will get more into Lucifer later.

Genesis 1:6-8 " 6.And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters,and let it divide the waters from the waters.7.And God MADE the firmament,and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8.And God called the firmament
Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

OK the earth is in water as we already know and so God divides these waters with the firmament.This is God removing the waters the earth is in,off of it.The firmament is not the earth's atmosphere like certian creationists claim.Think of the earth in water and God makes the firmament in the midst of the waters and the waters are divided as the firmament is raised all the way up to the third heaven.The firmament is the crystal sea, the hard dome that separates us from heaven where God is.This is the verses that tell about the firmament,the crystal sea and hard dome.Job 37:10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened."Job 37:18 "Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass." Job 38:30 "The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen." 1st Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."Revelation 4:6 "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." There are three heavens the bible tells us about and not just one.God made all three heavens at this time and the crystal sea also.Exodus 20:11 "For in six says the LORD MADE heaven and earth,THE SEA,and all that in them is,and rested on the seventh day:wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day,and hallowed it.Notice the word SEA which again refers to the crystal sea in heaven where God is the third heaven,not the first like is often taught about the firmament.
2nd Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,(whether in the body I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
This is why God does not say it is good on the second day too,it is because the crystal sea seperates us from God.Also notice the word MADE and not create so this is just God working on this restoring the the firmament.Notice God is working on the earth first like Genesis 2:4 says when it says "in the day that the LORD God MADE the earth and the heavens.God is working on the earth restoring it and removing these waters off of the earth,then he'll work on the heavens.

Genesis 1:9-13 "9.And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass,the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.10.And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering of the waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good.11.And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.13. And the evening and the morning were the third day."

This is God working on the earth restoring it and making it habitable again so that he can create man and woman.This shows that God is establishing that kinds will produce after its kind.God is establishing reproduction.

I will finish Genesis 1 later. Time for a break.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:56 pm**

abelcainsbrother wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:OK so let's apply what we've learned to Genesis 1 as we go through it.Because when we do you're going to see how much more is revealed when we do it.So keep these things in mind as we go through Genesis 1.

1.The heavens and earth are old and not young.
2.There was a gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 2.
3.There was a "world that then was" that existed on the earth that perished in water before Genesis 1:2.
4.This flood effected the heavens also and this is why there is no light and only darkness.
5.All things have not gone on as they were since the beginning of the creation like scoffers claim.
6.There is a difference between the words made and created that Moses wanted us to realize.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This was ex nihilo creation,bringing the entire universe into existence along with the earth perfectly and the way God wanted it.It was all new.Nobody including man or science knows when "In the beginning" was.God is eternal and it is silly to think God sat around for eternity until just 6000 years ago or 4.6 billion years ago,or even 13 billion years ago.God has been busy.The heavens and earth are old and not young because there were generations of the heavens and of the earth.And we know that there was a world that perished in waters on the earth also.To be honest, this is really the only real creating God does in the whole bible,everything else is just using already pre-existing materials to restore and work with to either make or create new things.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit if God moved upon the face of the waters.

I don't even have to change "was without form and void" to "became without form and void" although there is already ample evidence to do it,but I digress, not needed,and I don't like the idea of changing the meaning of words when it comes to God's word.Revelation 22:18-19.We already know that there was a world that perished in water and we can see what it led to.It led to a gap of time when all things ceased and stopped for a time and we can see it effected the heavens also because there is no light.The earth is "out of and in the water" like Peter told us earlier.The earth is in waters(the deep)and frozen because of no sun light or star light,just darkness.This is why the earth is in the state it is in.It is uninhabitable for life and so God has to do work on it to restore it.The earth is old and not young.Job 22:18:8-11 "But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it.Thou hast sent widows away empty, and arms of the fatherless have been broken.Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee; Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden fear troubleth thee; Or darkness, that thou candst not see; and abundance of waters cover thee." Job 22:15 " Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown wth a flood." Neanderthals and Hominids? A pre-Adamite race of beings that were not man.2nd Peter 3:5-6 "For this they willingy are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was being overflowed with water perished."We do not believe God created the earth without form and void.Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens;God himself that formed the earth AND MADE IT;he hath established it,he created it not in vain,he formed it to be inhabited:I am the LORD;and there is none else." This tell us that God both created the earth and he made it too.He created it in the beginning whenever that was then it became without form and void and so God worked on it in the six days and made it or restored it.It also tells us that God did not create the earth in a chaos or without form and void state like we see in Genesis 1:2.He created it to be inhabited from the beginning and it was inhabited in the beginning too,then at a later time it became without form and void which is an uninhabitable state.So God restores it as we go forward through Genesis 1.

Genesis 1:3-5. 3.And God said,Let there be light: and there was light.4.And God saw the light,that it was good: and God divided the light from darkness.5. And God called the light Day,and the darkness he called Night.And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Based on the darkness that exists we already know Lucifer had already rebelled against God but also a third of the angels Revelation 12:7-9.Lucifer is now Satan,the Devil.So he had already been Lucifer and had already rebelled.2nd Corinthians 4:6 "For God,who commanded the light to shine into darkness,hath shined in our hearts,to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." This is talking about Genesis 1:2-3.We already have Satan's kingdom already established.This is why no angels are created in Genesis 1.This gets skimmed over by other creation interpretations that teach this was the beginning.Why were no angels created including Satan that could rebel against God in Genesis 1 if this was the beginning?We will go into a further bible study about Lucifer later and how we know he had something to do with judgment being poured out that caused the world to perish in water.He ruled over the earth until he rebelled but we'll get into this later.But we already know that he has rebelled against God because of the darkness.Job 38:4-7 "4.Where was thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare,if thou hast understanding.5.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD(angels) shouted together." Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the SONS OF GOD(angels) came to present themselves before the Lord,and Satan came also among them." So we know that whenever in the beginning when God first created the earth angels already existed and they shouted and celebrated it.We can also assume this was before Lucifer rebelled against God.We will get more into Lucifer later.

Genesis 1:6-8 " 6.And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters,and let it divide the waters from the waters.7.And God MADE the firmament,and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8.And God called the firmament
Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

OK the earth is in water as we already know and so God divides these waters with the firmament.This is God removing the waters the earth is in,off of it.The firmament is not the earth's atmosphere like certian creationists claim.Think of the earth in water and God makes the firmament in the midst of the waters and the waters are divided as the firmament is raised all the way up to the third heaven.The firmament is the crystal sea, the hard dome that separates us from heaven where God is.This is the verses that tell about the firmament,the crystal sea and hard dome.Job 37:10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened."Job 37:18 "Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass." Job 38:30 "The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen." 1st Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."Revelation 4:6 "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind." There are three heavens the bible tells us about and not just one.God made all three heavens at this time and the crystal sea also.Exodus 20:11 "For in six says the LORD MADE heaven and earth,THE SEA,and all that in them is,and rested on the seventh day:wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day,and hallowed it.Notice the word SEA which again refers to the crystal sea in heaven where God is the third heaven,not the first like is often taught about the firmament.
2nd Corinthians 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,(whether in the body I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
This is why God does not say it is good on the second day too,it is because the crystal sea seperates us from God.Also notice the word MADE and not create so this is just God working on this restoring the the firmament.Notice God is working on the earth first like Genesis 2:4 says when it says "in the day that the LORD God MADE the earth and the heavens.God is working on the earth restoring it and removing these waters off of the earth,then he'll work on the heavens.

Genesis 1:9-13 "9.And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass,the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.10.And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering of the waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good.11.And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.13. And the evening and the morning were the third day."

This is God working on the earth restoring it and making it habitable again so that he can create man and woman.This shows that God is establishing that kinds will produce after its kind.God is establishing reproduction.

I will finish Genesis 1 later. Time for a break.

Evidence for God from Science

Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.

Re: Despite objections,why the Gap Theory is true.