Evidence for God from Science

Blessings, you should take your issue up with Jesus who said, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16) and then further along, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

It seems to me that when one doesn't get why Jesus is the only way, that such a person doesn't really understand our predicament before God who is completely holy. Understand, without Christ, we'd ALL perish because none of us are righteous or deserve to be with God. We are infact, incompatible with God.

While we might consider someone "good" or "righteous" by human standards (i.e., maybe we have never done major sins like murder, rape, robbing a bank or the like), yet Jesus makes the point when called "good", that noone is TRULY good but God. (Mark 10:18) And so, that puts all of us in a sticky predicament, because given goodness is one of God's attributes (only in Judaism and Christianity, not Islam which says evil is also from Allah), and we aren't good, then we're incompatible with God and deserve judgement and punishment for our wrong - the wages of which is death.

Now, in Christ, we find a cure to our poison. It seems unfair that some in the world who are bitten by say a lethal snake are unable to receive the anti-venom and live like we might be able to in our first-world countries. Not fair right? Yet, such is reality. The question is, if you know you've been bitten, and you are aware of an anti-venom that you have access to, are you going to stomp your feet and refuse it because some people don't have access to the cure? Are you going to protest receving it because others reject it for some reason or another? Perhaps it is unfair, but lets be clear, each one of us is responsible for picking up that snake and being bitten in the first place (metaphorically speaking of course).

God most certainly IS fair to everyone! Scripture reveals he's made EVERYONE aware of His existence - but the problem is, many suppress that knowledge in favor of their own desires and evil pursuits, rejecting what they have ALREADY been made aware of God's existence, turning instead to all manner of idols (pursuit of materialism, sensuality, etc.) and false religions. And yet, ALL can seek God in sincerity and He'll give all who truly desire and seek whatever they personally need to come to faith in Christ - because that is what He desires, for all SO WILLING. The problem is, most don't want the true God, and as a result, fail to seek Him. In fact, the Apostle Paul indicates God put people in their specific place and time in history so that they will perhaps seek Him (but it's up to them).

Read the story of the Roman pagan Cornelius in Acts 10 - as God honored his sincere seeking, and sent Peter to him with the Gospel! But God, in His geographic placements of people across time, also ALWAYS foreknew the hearts and minds of those for whom knowledge of the Gospel would only be rejected - as most people in today's America do, just as people watching Jesus do miracles did. So, for vast numbers of people across time, those with closed off hearts and minds to God (the TRUE God / Jesus), the Gospel is pointless for them to hear, because they're only response will be is a further rejection of a more complete understanding of the God they want nothing to do with. But only God, in his all-knowingness, knows all whose hearts will never warm to Him, those for whom knowledge of the Gospel would not change them. And He also knows how He will reach those in remote places that need to know of Jesus. As for HOW He always reaches such people, we cannot know. But we do know that the very reason for the Great Commission is that the world needs to know about Jesus, and that is God's way He uses Christians do do so.

Scripture says the only way to the Father is through the Son - and that "narrow is the gate" (Jesus is that gate!). WE don't get to choose the path to God. And God says there is only ONE pathway to Him (through Christ). It's like desiring to reach one's destination via all manner or highways and secondary roads that do not connect to where one desires to go - as only one narrow road exists that can possibly get you there. The pathway to God is the only one Jesus says exists - Himself!

Blessed wrote: Apparently you've never heard of the socialization process. If you believe that - your an absolutist Christian zealot. No different then the (relatively few) Mormon Zealots I met who were absolutist's. They believed only Mormons will saved.

I lost $3,200 cash tonight and almost got into an unwarranted physical fight with some redneck at the Ceasers Palace sportsbook ..so since I'm on a roll .. I might as well end this horrible night on a divisive note..

This helps answer my question, "Where is Blessed coming from with this?"

Thank you.

Phil, I'm apparently one of those who's rejected God in favor of my own desires and evil pursuits. The thing is, I'm having a tough time identifying which of my pursuits are evil.

So let's see...

I'm married to a woman on whom I'm not cheating and never have.

I have two kids that I don't abuse or neglect, no matter how hard they push my buttons. And they push hard. I haven't had a decent night's sleep in literally years.

I don't do drugs or gamble, and I rarely drink (and never drink to excess).

I pay my taxes, do my job, and never steal, con, or connive. I occasionally find myself coveting other people's stuff, but that's rare and mild, and never goes beyond that. I don't covet anybody else's wife.

I'm honest, generally to a fault.

I treat others with courtesy and respect. I help those who need it when it's in my power to do so.

So what are these desires and evil impulses you accuse me of?

People go to hell for their disbelief in Jesus, not because of their sins...
Specifically, believing into the name of Jesus brings salvation from eternal separation (Acts 4:12).
Blessed, I'd recommend you putting this verse into practice: Romans 10:6-7. What is correct, is that anyone wanting to search and find Him, will. Yes, there are some people who label themselves as Catholic who are saved, as well as others who label themselves in different ways as long as they recognize and believe in the Christ of the world, the Son of God.

Mallz wrote:People go to hell for their disbelief in Jesus, not because of their sins...
Specifically, believing into the name of Jesus brings salvation from eternal separation (Acts 4:12).
Blessed, I'd recommend you putting this verse into practice: Romans 10:6-7. What is correct, is that anyone wanting to search and find Him, will. Yes, there are some people who label themselves as Catholic who are saved, as well as others who label themselves in different ways as long as they recognize and believe in the Christ of the world, the Son of God.

YES. The Son of God. Yes. Absolutely.

But I am feeling a glitch saying "Jesus Christ IS God". Because the bible eludes to this.. but does not specifically say "Jesus IS God" and raises way more questions in my mind than answers.

First and foremost - I am afraid if I say that "Jesus IS God" - I am trading God the Father - for God the Son - in the image of a man - and could be condemned by God the Father for idolatry. Idolatry is the #1 biggest sin according to Judaism.

I understand as Gentiles we are separated from God and Jesus Christ is the only bridge. The only gate. The only way to the Father. I just do not see how that bridge, that gate IS the father. It's a problem I am having within myself and I really don't want to go to hell for it.

Ed: Phil, I'm apparently one of those who's rejected God in favor of my own desires and evil pursuits. The thing is, I'm having a tough time identifying which of my pursuits are evil.

So let's see...

I'm married to a woman on whom I'm not cheating and never have.

I have two kids that I don't abuse or neglect, no matter how hard they push my buttons. And they push hard. I haven't had a decent night's sleep in literally years.

I don't do drugs or gamble, and I rarely drink (and never drink to excess).

I pay my taxes, do my job, and never steal, con, or connive. I occasionally find myself coveting other people's stuff, but that's rare and mild, and never goes beyond that. I don't covet anybody else's wife.

I'm honest, generally to a fault.

I treat others with courtesy and respect. I help those who need it when it's in my power to do so.

So what are these desires and evil impulses you accuse me of?

Ed, when I referenced above the desires and evils of those rejecting God, I was more referencing the often horrible actions and extremes of violence, genocide, massacres, etc. of many rejecting God. However, as for yourself, by society's measuring stick, you would seem to be the type of neighbor most folks would like to have. And you've had the enormous influence of your behavior by growing up with the residual influences of Christianity still found across the culture. But as God defines the evils of men, He doesn't only use society's measures of evil - even though much of what He references I'm sure we also could agree has been terrible. But God goes much further in what He sees as evil. And you may well be better in most behaviors that I am. The only - and most important difference between us (from God' perspective) - is, that I am saved, and you are not (yet?). The thing God sees as most evil is when people deny Him, and deny Jesus is God - and this you are surely guilty of. And yet He offers ALL forgiveness and eternal joy to those who will commit themselves to Him (through faith in Christ), in a sincere stated desire to follow and love Him, and to be forgiven of their sins. There is NO sin that God is unwilling to forgive, except permanent rejection of Him.

So, why must one be saved? What is the big, honking deal with God? Are you so bad compared to many Christians? NO! In God's eyes, pre-Salvation, we're all equally guilty of some level of sin (yes, some sins are worst than others). But it's because God is entirely perfect, without flaw or sin, and so He can accept nothing corrupt coming into His presence that hasn't been purified by Him via the covering of their sins with the applied shed blood of Jesus - who must be received through faith. Even the slightest, single sin makes us corrupt, in the eyes of Holy God. That's hard for creatures who are sinful to understand. But God has made the solution exceptionally easy for us - and He paid a terrible price for that solution on the Cross. We just must believe and receive that offer of pardon and eternal bliss, through faith in and acceptance of Jesus as God.

Ed, if it were up to me - your apparent semblance of a basically decent fellow - no biggie - I sure wouldn't want to see you left out of an eternity of joy. But I am not God; I don't set His standards, and His standards of perfection are far beyond what we can fathom. But God always knew no one would ever be able to have free will and meet His standard of perfection - and thus He always have the plan to make salvation available to us, through the sacrifice of Jesus - and before that - faith in Him as could be known pre-Christ. So, this is not a matter of Christians being less sinful than any other men - not in God's eyes. It's ONLY a matter of whether their sins have been covered per faith in Christ.

Blessed, here's a little review for you on what Jesus claimed for Himself: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/w ... s_god.html

BTW, we are WAY off the original topic - could one of the mod technical gurus please split this thread at some logical point?

Philip wrote:BTW, we are WAY off the original topic - could one of the mod technical gurus please split this thread at some logical point?

*looks at mod status*

hahah what?

It’s just that, as I’ve never split a thread before, I’m likely to screw it up.

Blessed wrote: YES. The Son of God. Yes. Absolutely.

But I am feeling a glitch saying "Jesus Christ IS God". Because the bible eludes to this.. but does not specifically say "Jesus IS God" and raises way more questions in my mind than answers.

First and foremost - I am afraid if I say that "Jesus IS God" - I am trading God the Father - for God the Son - in the image of a man - and could be condemned by God the Father for idolatry. Idolatry is the #1 biggest sin according to Judaism.

I understand as Gentiles we are separated from God and Jesus Christ is the only bridge. The only gate. The only way to the Father. I just do not see how that bridge, that gate IS the father. It's a problem I am having within myself and I really don't want to go to hell for it.

The bible does say Jesus is God, most specifically John 8:58. That is Jesus claiming Divinity. Jesus is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. The difference between the three is only relationship. God is one. And why do you care what Judaism has to say on the matter? And we aren't Gentiles, btw. Galatians 3:28. Everyone is separated from God no matter their label and Jesus is the only bridge for everyone. The gate isn't the Father, not sure where you are getting that? Confusion of knowledge of God won't lead you to hell, either.

Confusion of knowledge of God won't lead you to hell, either.

Not certain what is meant by this statement?

Philip wrote:It’s just that, as I’ve never split a thread before, I’m likely to screw it up.

Live a little, Phil. What's the worst that could happen?

Ed: Live a little, Phil. What's the worst that could happen?

Well, I could wipe out everyone's posts. Then I'd have to annoy a cranky Aussie to fix things. See, Ed, I wasn't one of those kids that said, "Gee dad, I wonder what happens if I push THIS button?"



Unfortunately, my youngest boy was EXACTLY that kind of kid - he'd pulled two fire alarms (with firetruck response) by the time he was 5.