Evidence for God from Science

Ged wrote:Q: Where did the sheep get a haircut?

A: The baa-baa shop!

You Kiwis certainly look after your sheep well.

IS Trump racist? I don't know his heart, but I do know that he is very racially insensitive. I also know that many people with his background look down on minorities as being inherently inferior in intellect, potential and morals. People raised in great wealthy have often encountered very few minorities on a personal level, and mostly only in service positions. In my commercial real estate career, I worked for many people of significant wealth who think like this. It should be no surprise that Trump likely thinks like this. He likely thinks in terms of movers, shakers, powerbrokers, and then there's the common "riff-raff," with the takers and users of resources at the bottom of that ladder - with minorities being the most prevalent.

It MIGHT be that Trump is just grossly racially ignorant and insensitive. But as he is president of ALL Americans, as he desires to wield power to bring America into a greater place and position of world influence, his mouth and insensitivities are hurting all of his best intentions and hopes for America and the world. Millions of those more liberal, including minorities, distrust white conservatives because of the past - and for how many of them STILL think about minorities. With his idiotic statements, he's stupidly alienating a huge amount of people, many of them minorities, unnecessarily. He's giving his liberal adversaries easy ammunition to attack him, and to attack good policies and initiatives by stereotyping all conservatives as racists and haters. Trump also needs leaders around the world who think more multi-culturally - and his statements alienate cooperation because they view him as a racist hater. Why would you want to alienate those who might move to areas of cooperation that are mutually helpful to all? Why make it easy to let people demonize all conservatives or those in your party by such unnecessary and idiotic statements. And so his mouth is helping maintain and build political opposition where it might otherwise come alongside. So he's killing the trust of an enormous amount of voters and political rivals, both in this country and abroad. Dumb and dumber!

Now, all of us know that many poor countries ARE hellholes of generational problems, graft, incompetence, and poverty - but an educated person knows how to frame the difference between those facts and in the perceived equation of those terrible problems with the masses of PEOPLE in such countries, as if they are categorically just evil, stupid or the cause of their own national situations. And we DO need to decide who comes in, what costs it is to us as a people. Do we allow in only the worlds poor, or people who help our own situation - both economically and with intellectual capital and expertise. There has to be some reasonable balance of the two that includes practical economics, compassion, and immigration inflows favoring whatever reasonable percentage of those who have the training and education to contribute vastly to our national needs - and not that those considered coming in of higher education and expertise need not only come from white countries like "Norway" - as there are many from poorer countries that would fulfill that criteria as well.

But the president's comments at least sound like a person who thinks racially - which has already been used with great political influence against him. Can he learn or change in positive ways around this? I dunno. But the best way for THAT to happens is that when he makes such insensitive comments, that conservatives who also despise that kind of talk and thinking ALSO HAMMER HIM for it! If conservatives just keep up the mantra of, "So, what's the big honking deal?," then they'll continue to harm the potential and opportunities for conservative influences and building unity with those willing to join them in initiatives. And note, the more they turn people off, the more they act as if they could care less what others think, the more they build generational mistrust and political opposition - but do they really want to do THAT???!!! Conservatives need to learn to criticize their own favorites, wherever and whenever appropriate. All politicians are human beings - meaning they all screw up and do stupid things. If you fail to acknowledge the wrongful or harmful things of those you more identify with, while ONLY hammering such things in those you typically oppose, you're not only killing your credibility, but perpetuating generational problems, mistrust and further dysfunction!

Nothing Trump has said throughout the whole election has been racist,so I do not understand why some think Trump's comments are detrimental to conservatives.There is no reason at all to believe that because the left calls Republicans racists that it is true and will stick.Liberals call those on the right what they are/do.Like for instance it is the left being racist by wanting to allow hispanics to openly break US laws and come into America illegally.This is racism to allow certian people to openly break the law while expecting everybody else to follow the law. If you're speeding in your car and a cop pulls you over you cannot tell him I am hispanic and the law does not apply to me,and yet this is what those who want illegal immigration want to do. The fact is that the laws apply to all people and not just some. Also like I said earlier it has already been proven wrong that Trump alienates hispanics for conservatives because hispanics voted for Donald Trump.They agree with Donald Trump and love Trump too,Hispanics are big Trump supporters too.The ones who are legal US citezens.I've even seen interviews of dreamers(illegal aliens who dream of becoming US citezens) living in liberal sanctuary cities in America say that chain migration should end and that they agree with Trump about it.

ACB: Nothing Trump has said throughout the whole election has been racist,so I do not understand why some think Trump's comments are detrimental to conservatives.There is no reason at all to believe that because the left calls Republicans racists that it is true and will stick.Liberals call those on the right what they are/do.Like for instance it is the left being racist by wanting to allow hispanics to openly break US laws and come into America illegally.This is racism to allow certian people to openly break the law while expecting everybody else to follow the law. If you're speeding in your car and a cop pulls you over you cannot tell him I am hispanic and the law does not apply to me,and yet this is what those who want illegal immigration want to do. The fact is that the laws apply to all people and not just some. Also like I said earlier it has already been proven wrong that Trump alienates hispanics for conservatives because hispanics voted for Donald Trump.They agree with Donald Trump and love Trump too,Hispanics are big Trump supporters too.The ones who are legal US citezens.I've even seen interviews of dreamers(illegal aliens who dream of becoming US citezens) living in liberal sanctuary cities in America say that chain migration should end and that they agree with Trump about it.

And thanks so much for sharing that sincerely objective Trump moment! Now, I think if only Trump would buy into GAP Theory, then you might actually wanna marry him! Because I'm pretty sure you're convinced he can walk on water.

C'mon, ACB, admit that you are secretly working for Sean Hannity!

Some Hispanics DO support Trump. Same with blacks. Many don't though, and at this point I hardly agree with what he does. Some things, yes. Same with Obama and Dubya.

Philip wrote:

ACB: Nothing Trump has said throughout the whole election has been racist,so I do not understand why some think Trump's comments are detrimental to conservatives.There is no reason at all to believe that because the left calls Republicans racists that it is true and will stick.Liberals call those on the right what they are/do.Like for instance it is the left being racist by wanting to allow hispanics to openly break US laws and come into America illegally.This is racism to allow certian people to openly break the law while expecting everybody else to follow the law. If you're speeding in your car and a cop pulls you over you cannot tell him I am hispanic and the law does not apply to me,and yet this is what those who want illegal immigration want to do. The fact is that the laws apply to all people and not just some. Also like I said earlier it has already been proven wrong that Trump alienates hispanics for conservatives because hispanics voted for Donald Trump.They agree with Donald Trump and love Trump too,Hispanics are big Trump supporters too.The ones who are legal US citezens.I've even seen interviews of dreamers(illegal aliens who dream of becoming US citezens) living in liberal sanctuary cities in America say that chain migration should end and that they agree with Trump about it.

And thanks so much for sharing that sincerely objective Trump moment! Now, I think if only Trump would buy into GAP Theory, then you might actually wanna marry him! Because I'm pretty sure you're convinced he can walk on water.

C'mon, ACB, admit that you are secretly working for Sean Hannity!

Nope! I just believe he is the best President we have had since Ronald Reagan and there were people in both parties even back then that opposed Reagan and did not like his conservative ideas and agenda and it caused Reagan problems.History is repeating itself with Trump.Everytime we get us a real conservative both parties oppose him and thwart their agenda when we need it the most.Trump is a great President but is not God at all to me.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Nope! I just believe he is the best President we have had since Ronald Reagan and there were people in both parties even back then that opposed Reagan and did not like his conservative ideas and agenda and it caused Reagan problems.History is repeating itself with Trump.

Ronald Reagan was the first President that I voted for.
Ronald Reagan was a great President and more importantly a great person.
Ronald Reagan lifted us up as a nation.

I admired Ronald Reagan.
Donald Trump is not Ronald Reagan.
Donald Trump is not remotely like Ronald Reagan, and in many ways is the polar opposite of Ronald Reagan.

It makes me cringe when people compare a person like Donald Trump with a great President like Ronald Reagan.
For decades I supported the party of Lincoln and Reagan... starting with Ronald Reagan.
I will not support the party of Trump.
(which makes it impossible for me to support any political party these days)

DB: which makes it impossible for me to support any political party these days

Which is why we must pick and choose per the best possible person and not per the party. Also, if the parties believe we will support based upon a branded party - in other words, no matter what person they slap the party logo on, that people will support them based upon party affiliation - that is precisely how we end up with crappy candidates. Of course, I vote far more for those on one party than the other, however, I'd love to see strong candidates with good values in BOTH parties. Matter of fact, when one party gets really bad and it's candidates are typically weak or terrible, then what often happens is the other party tends to put forward ever weaker candidates - or ones their party's power brokers think are "good enough" to defeat those on the other side. That is precisely how we ended upon with Trump vs. Hillary. A party should truly have strong values and positions on key issues, and it's candidates should reflect that. But, so often, that's not the case.

DBowling wrote:
It makes me cringe when people compare a person like Donald Trump with a great President like Ronald Reagan.

Talk about ‘cringe’ I know one guy who believes he is the modern day Cyrus.

Shapiro does the best "summary" or talk I've seen of the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r_GVdTifKg

I've come to the conclusion that all politicians have a very difficult job to do. They basically have to take as little money as possible from the people while doing as much as possible with it. People have different opinions on the best ways to go about it all, and they'll also tend to focus on the good things done by their favourite politicians while highlighting the not-so-good things done by their opponents. Some leaders (the dictator type for example) probably are objectively worse than others but in general it's a complex matter. Are there any leaders you can squarely blame for wrecking the US (for example) or any who were so great they made it paradise on earth? I don't think so.

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: Nope! I just believe he is the best President we have had since Ronald Reagan and there were people in both parties even back then that opposed Reagan and did not like his conservative ideas and agenda and it caused Reagan problems.History is repeating itself with Trump.

Ronald Reagan was the first President that I voted for.
Ronald Reagan was a great President and more importantly a great person.
Ronald Reagan lifted us up as a nation.

I admired Ronald Reagan.
Donald Trump is not Ronald Reagan.
Donald Trump is not remotely like Ronald Reagan, and in many ways is the polar opposite of Ronald Reagan.

It makes me cringe when people compare a person like Donald Trump with a great President like Ronald Reagan.
For decades I supported the party of Lincoln and Reagan... starting with Ronald Reagan.
I will not support the party of Trump.
(which makes it impossible for me to support any political party these days)

Reagan was a known womanizer, boozer, and possibly even a rapist.

You really need a reality check!

RickD wrote: Reagan was a known womanizer, boozer, and possibly even a rapist.

You really need a reality check!

I'm not sure I would classify Kitty Kelly's book as 'reality'.
Reagan was never charged with rape and Selene Waters did not bring an accusation of rape against Reagan either.

Compare that with...
3 accusations of rape
16 accusations of sexual harassment or sexual assault
And bragging about sexually assaulting women on a hot mic.

Assaulting women is deplorable... period!
Whether it was a single 'possible' assault by Reagan in the 1950s or Trump bragging about assaulting women on a hot mic in 2005.

DBowling wrote:

RickD wrote: Reagan was a known womanizer, boozer, and possibly even a rapist.

You really need a reality check!

I'm not sure I would classify Kitty Kelly's book as 'reality'.
Reagan was never charged with rape and Selene Waters did not bring an accusation of rape against Reagan either.

Compare that with...
3 accusations of rape
16 accusations of sexual harassment or sexual assault
And bragging about sexually assaulting women on a hot mic.

Assaulting women is deplorable... period!
Whether it was a single 'possible' assault by Reagan in the 1950s or Trump bragging about assaulting women on a hot mic in 2005.

Thanks for making my point. Neither Reagan nor Trump are sinless. So let's just focus on what Trump is doing to help the country.

You almost sound like ultimate777, with your anti-Trump agenda.

RickD wrote:

DBowling wrote:

RickD wrote: Reagan was a known womanizer, boozer, and possibly even a rapist.

You really need a reality check!

I'm not sure I would classify Kitty Kelly's book as 'reality'.
Reagan was never charged with rape and Selene Waters did not bring an accusation of rape against Reagan either.

Compare that with...
3 accusations of rape
16 accusations of sexual harassment or sexual assault
And bragging about sexually assaulting women on a hot mic.

Assaulting women is deplorable... period!
Whether it was a single 'possible' assault by Reagan in the 1950s or Trump bragging about assaulting women on a hot mic in 2005.

Thanks for making my point. Neither Reagan nor Trump are sinless. So let's just focus on what Trump is doing to help the country.

We both agree that neither Trump or Reagan are sinless.
However, in your attempt to tear down Reagan, only one of your three accusations had a basis in fact.

The two accusations that you made that were factually incorrect were:
1. Boozer - Ronald Reagan was not an alcoholic (you may possibly have been confusing Ronald Reagan with his father, who was an alcoholic)
2. Rapist - And Ronald Reagan was not a rapist (again Ronald Reagan was never charged with rape and no one ever brought an accusation of rape against Ronald Reagan either)

The one accusation that does have some element of truth to it was the "womanizing" accusation.
Yes... there was a period of time during his Hollywood career in the 50s that Ronald Reagan engaged in activities that could be described as womanizing.

But Ronald Reagan had put that type of behavior behind him long before he ran for and became President of the United States.
Ronald Reagan was not perfect, and Ronald Reagan was not Jesus Christ.
But I stand behind my evaluation that the man that I voted for twice in the 1980s was a great person and a great President.

You almost sound like ultimate777, with your anti-Trump agenda.

I like to think of my agenda as...
1. First and foremost pro-Christ
2. Which also implies being pro-truth and pro Christian values.
3. And from a political perspective, being pro-conservative.

And I think all my comments regarding Trump, both pro-Trump and anti-Trump fall into one of those three categories.