Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmYou're kidding, right?
Whenever you come to a point when you believe something, hopefully it's because you've used the knowledge that you've acquired, to get you to the point that you believe whatever it is that you believe.
Did you read the links I provided? Atheism is not about believing, it’s about NOT believing.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmUnless you're saying that your atheism is a blind faith, not based on any logic whatsoever?
Is that what you're saying?
Faith is about believing, again atheism is the opposite; not believing. You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amI love it when you atheists acknowledge you have no proof atheism is true.
Atheism is true? What does that mean?
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amThis means based on evidence atheism is just an opinion at best.
Atheism is not an opinion or belief system; it is a rejection of an opinion or belief system. To call atheism a belief is like calling a person who does not play any sports an athlete.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
We Christians need a new way for dealing with atheists. First off,no more one-sided debates where only the Christian brings evidence while the atheists brings none atheism is true but just atheist talking points ready to reject,deny and explain away any and all evidence for God or anything having to do with the supernatural.We need to stop casting pearls before swine and challenge the atheist to bring proof and evidence atheism is true to the debate like we do.
But we really need to stop trying to convince atheists God is real or Christianity is true and instead focus on teaching them how important it is to go by evidence to get to the truth of any matter.So instead of trying to convince Kenny with evidence focus on ways to teach him why evidence is so important to discover truths from lies and myths and opinions. If we do this? People will leave atheism due to a lack of evidence even if they don't become a Christian based on no evidence.
Christians should stop making videos to atheists trying to convince them with evidence and instead make videos teaching how we go by evidence to determine the truth and claim these teachings are for atheists because they are not going by evidence muchless proof.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmYou're kidding, right?
Whenever you come to a point when you believe something, hopefully it's because you've used the knowledge that you've acquired, to get you to the point that you believe whatever it is that you believe.
Did you read the links I provided? Atheism is not about believing, it’s about NOT believing.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmUnless you're saying that your atheism is a blind faith, not based on any logic whatsoever?
Is that what you're saying?
Faith is about believing, again atheism is the opposite; not believing. You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amI love it when you atheists acknowledge you have no proof atheism is true.
Atheism is true? What does that mean?
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amThis means based on evidence atheism is just an opinion at best.
Atheism is not an opinion or belief system; it is a rejection of an opinion or belief system. To call atheism a belief is like calling a person who does not play any sports an athlete.
I don't care what you call it. You have no evidence at all you are correct in your thinking. You CANNOT know you are right as an atheist without evidence.How come you refuse to go by evidence and give atheists a pass for having none? Why be part of a group without any evidence you're correct in your thinking? It does not matter if atheism is not a belief system it is not true based on no evidence.We know it cannot be true.
You need to go by evidence because you'll leave atheism based on no evidence even if you don't become a Christian. I mean sure nobody can change your mind for you and force you to but you'll do it when you decide to go by evidence.
Learn to value evidence Kenny because it is the only way to know you are right or wrong whether or not if atheism is just an opinion, not a belief system and rejection of a claim,etc. It still cannot be right based on no evidence. We reject anything even opinions due to a lack of evidence.Opinions can be wrong.
I want to know why you refuse to go by evidence and live out your life as an atheist without any evidence you are right. But then also how you can do it facing just death and nothing more when you die because atheists reject an afterlife,heaven,hell,paradise,reincarnation,etc. Is atheism a death cult or something? Have you been brainwashed by leftist propaganda to not value life and so death has become appealing to you?
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmYou're kidding, right?
Whenever you come to a point when you believe something, hopefully it's because you've used the knowledge that you've acquired, to get you to the point that you believe whatever it is that you believe.
Did you read the links I provided? Atheism is not about believing, it’s about NOT believing.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmUnless you're saying that your atheism is a blind faith, not based on any logic whatsoever?
Is that what you're saying?
Faith is about believing, again atheism is the opposite; not believing. You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amI love it when you atheists acknowledge you have no proof atheism is true.
Atheism is true? What does that mean?
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amThis means based on evidence atheism is just an opinion at best.
Atheism is not an opinion or belief system; it is a rejection of an opinion or belief system. To call atheism a belief is like calling a person who does not play any sports an athlete.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amI don't care what you call it. You have no evidence at all you are correct in your thinking.
Yes I do. I always have evidence for what I claim to be true
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amYou CANNOT know you are right as an atheist without evidence.How come you refuse to go by evidence and give atheists a pass for having none?
When have I ever done this? I have debated many people who are atheists.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amWhy be part of a group without any evidence you're correct in your thinking? It does not matter if atheism is not a belief system it is not true based on no evidence.We know it cannot be true.
You need to go by evidence because you'll leave atheism based on no evidence even if you don't become a Christian. I mean sure nobody can change your mind for you and force you to but you'll do it when you decide to go by evidence.
Learn to value evidence Kenny because it is the only way to know you are right or wrong whether or not if atheism is just an opinion, not a belief system and rejection of a claim,etc. It still cannot be right based on no evidence. We reject anything even opinions due to a lack of evidence.
Judging from what you’ve written, you appear to lack the basic understanding of what it means to be atheist.
The problem you guys seem to have is with atheists, they don’t believe the same thing. Christians generally believe the same thing which can be found in the Bible. Atheism doesn’t work that way, you can debate me as an atheist and I can tell you what I believe and why, then you go to another atheist and he will disagree with everything I believe and have a whole new set of beliefs that I wouldn’t agree with. Madalyn O hair said it best when she said; trying to organize atheists is more difficult than herding cats! And she was right. When a group are defined by what they don’t believe, there will never be a consensus on what they do believe.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmYou're kidding, right?
Whenever you come to a point when you believe something, hopefully it's because you've used the knowledge that you've acquired, to get you to the point that you believe whatever it is that you believe.
Did you read the links I provided? Atheism is not about believing, it’s about NOT believing.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmUnless you're saying that your atheism is a blind faith, not based on any logic whatsoever?
Is that what you're saying?
Faith is about believing, again atheism is the opposite; not believing. You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amI love it when you atheists acknowledge you have no proof atheism is true.
Atheism is true? What does that mean?
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amThis means based on evidence atheism is just an opinion at best.
Atheism is not an opinion or belief system; it is a rejection of an opinion or belief system. To call atheism a belief is like calling a person who does not play any sports an athlete.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amI don't care what you call it. You have no evidence at all you are correct in your thinking.
Yes I do. I always have evidence for what I claim to be true
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amYou CANNOT know you are right as an atheist without evidence.How come you refuse to go by evidence and give atheists a pass for having none?
When have I ever done this? I have debated many people who are atheists.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amWhy be part of a group without any evidence you're correct in your thinking? It does not matter if atheism is not a belief system it is not true based on no evidence.We know it cannot be true.
You need to go by evidence because you'll leave atheism based on no evidence even if you don't become a Christian. I mean sure nobody can change your mind for you and force you to but you'll do it when you decide to go by evidence.
Learn to value evidence Kenny because it is the only way to know you are right or wrong whether or not if atheism is just an opinion, not a belief system and rejection of a claim,etc. It still cannot be right based on no evidence. We reject anything even opinions due to a lack of evidence.
Judging from what you’ve written, you appear to lack the basic understanding of what it means to be atheist.
The problem you guys seem to have is with atheists, they don’t believe the same thing. Christians generally believe the same thing which can be found in the Bible. Atheism doesn’t work that way, you can debate me as an atheist and I can tell you what I believe and why, then you go to another atheist and he will disagree with everything I believe and have a whole new set of beliefs that I wouldn’t agree with. Madalyn O hair said it best when she said; trying to organize atheists is more difficult than herding cats! And she was right. When a group are defined by what they don’t believe, there will never be a consensus on what they do believe.
Differences in any group in the world is no excuse Kenny for not going by evidence and doing so willingly and knowing it.Why don't you have a desire to know atheists are correct in their thinking? Why have'nt you asked them for evidence? Do you not care if you are right? Are you easily mislead? Because you will be not going by evidence.
Despite what you may think smart Christians take evidence very seriously because we are warned about Satan the father of lies,deception,false teachers,false prophets,etc so that we must go by the truth as much as possible and the only way we can do this is by evidence.
As it is the only way to go when you're seeing if this is true or a lie,a false teaching,etc. You know I have researched many different things that interest me through the years and the think is is you have to try to remove your bias and what everybody else is saying and just focus on evidence. You first have to understand it,then you look for any evidence to support it,then if there is any evidence against it,then you have to examine the evidence of both sides thoroughly too because people can be pushing lies or half truths,because of their bias,but you just hone in on the evidence and you let the evidence do the answering for you about who is right and who is wrong.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmYou're kidding, right?
Whenever you come to a point when you believe something, hopefully it's because you've used the knowledge that you've acquired, to get you to the point that you believe whatever it is that you believe.
Did you read the links I provided? Atheism is not about believing, it’s about NOT believing.
RickD wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:43 pmUnless you're saying that your atheism is a blind faith, not based on any logic whatsoever?
Is that what you're saying?
Faith is about believing, again atheism is the opposite; not believing. You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amI love it when you atheists acknowledge you have no proof atheism is true.
Atheism is true? What does that mean?
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 amThis means based on evidence atheism is just an opinion at best.
Atheism is not an opinion or belief system; it is a rejection of an opinion or belief system. To call atheism a belief is like calling a person who does not play any sports an athlete.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amI don't care what you call it. You have no evidence at all you are correct in your thinking.
Yes I do. I always have evidence for what I claim to be true
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amYou CANNOT know you are right as an atheist without evidence.How come you refuse to go by evidence and give atheists a pass for having none?
When have I ever done this? I have debated many people who are atheists.
abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 amWhy be part of a group without any evidence you're correct in your thinking? It does not matter if atheism is not a belief system it is not true based on no evidence.We know it cannot be true.
You need to go by evidence because you'll leave atheism based on no evidence even if you don't become a Christian. I mean sure nobody can change your mind for you and force you to but you'll do it when you decide to go by evidence.
Learn to value evidence Kenny because it is the only way to know you are right or wrong whether or not if atheism is just an opinion, not a belief system and rejection of a claim,etc. It still cannot be right based on no evidence. We reject anything even opinions due to a lack of evidence.
Judging from what you’ve written, you appear to lack the basic understanding of what it means to be atheist.
The problem you guys seem to have is with atheists, they don’t believe the same thing. Christians generally believe the same thing which can be found in the Bible. Atheism doesn’t work that way, you can debate me as an atheist and I can tell you what I believe and why, then you go to another atheist and he will disagree with everything I believe and have a whole new set of beliefs that I wouldn’t agree with. Madalyn O hair said it best when she said; trying to organize atheists is more difficult than herding cats! And she was right. When a group are defined by what they don’t believe, there will never be a consensus on what they do believe.
Differences in any group in the world is no excuse Kenny for not going by evidence and doing so willingly and knowing it.Why don't you have a desire to know atheists are correct in their thinking? Why have'nt you asked them for evidence? Do you not care if you are right? Are you easily mislead? Because you will be not going by evidence.
Why on Earth would I care about what other atheists believe? I couldn’t care less what they believe what’s important is what I believe. Mine is the only position I defend not some other atheist views Haven’t you been listening to anything I’ve said thus far?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Kenny's defining belief of atheism is a dime a dozen - having the one commonality all atheists share, they don't currently believe an ACTUAL God or gods exist (as opposed to mere things, objects or people that various ones may have claimed to be a god). It matters not their reasoning or peripheral beliefs, as long as they hold to their no-God / no-god(s) exist (that is, actual ones).
An agnostic is undecided skeptic - while remaining unconvinced that a God or gods exist - and some of them would view that question as unknowable / unprovable, and some would say it's possible and perhaps unlikely, and certainly, currently unknown, maybe discoverable, maybe not. They just can't say either way. They are the independent thinkers (can't make up their minds) of religious beliefs.
Ok..
Hear me out...
Everything is cause and effect, yes?
Life, existence, seems to be about creation, life, death. Yes?
We know how some things were created. Or born.
The universe exists.
How, why, who or what created it?
Do you really believe that there wasn't "something" behind the big bang?
Forget God, or even labelling this something, do you at least believe there iOS "something" a first cause?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 am
Ok..
Hear me out...
Everything is cause and effect, yes?
Life, existence, seems to be about creation, life, death. Yes?
We know how some things were created. Or born.
The universe exists.
How, why, who or what created it?
Why do you assume the Universe was created? Why not assume the Universe always existed? Something had to have existed eternally right? Why not the Universe?
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 am Do you really believe that there wasn't "something" behind the big bang?
If we assume there was, what was behind that which was behind the big bang? If that something can “self start”, why can’t that expanding singularity (big bang) self start?
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 am Forget God, or even labelling this something, do you at least believe there iOS "something" a first cause?
Why only “A” first cause? Why not multiple first causes?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 am
Ok..
Hear me out...
Everything is cause and effect, yes?
Life, existence, seems to be about creation, life, death. Yes?
We know how some things were created. Or born.
The universe exists.
How, why, who or what created it?
Why do you assume the Universe was created? Why not assume the Universe always existed? Something had to have existed eternally right? Why not the Universe? cause and effect..
I'm not a scientist, but does it not seem that everything that is alive was "created" by something? A human from an egg and a sperm, a plant from a seed. All "created" they didn't just appear, they evolved from something. There was a point of creation.
Maybe the universe has always existed but science suggests otherwise. Everything points to birth (or creation) and death.
You say something has to have existed eternally. Yes, the first cause. Existence.
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 am Do you really believe that there wasn't "something" behind the big bang?
If we assume there was, what was behind that which was behind the big bang? If that something can “self start”, why can’t that expanding singularity (big bang) self start?Maybe it did
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:22 am Forget God, or even labelling this something, do you at least believe there iOS "something" a first cause?
Why only “A” first cause? Why not multiple first causes?because everything has a beginning. There has to be a first cause, and that has to be eternal
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Why only “A” first cause? Why not multiple first causes?
We have discussed this before, quite a bit.
You know why there can ONLY be One first cause and that has to do with the attributes that a first cause MUST have, remember?
It must be PURE ACTUALITY or else something can effect cause on it.
It must be Eternal and all present or else it subject to time/space.
Etc, etc.
And there can't be more than one because you would have to be able to distinguish between them, obviously, and that would mean that one of them is lacking something the other has and as such, can't be Pure Actuality.
Ken simply refuses to learn; doesn't want to know any truth inconvenient to his desired atheistic outlook. Just like with the near death experiences - says he has had no interest in them - very strange, don't you think, for someone who asserts their no evidence for the spiritual?
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:05 amcause and effect..
I'm not a scientist, but does it not seem that everything that is alive was "created" by something? A human from an egg and a sperm, a plant from a seed. All "created" they didn't just appear, they evolved from something. There was a point of creation.
On Earth; yes. But you can’t judge the entirety of the Universe based on what we see here on Earth.
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:05 amYou say something has to have existed eternally. Yes, the first cause. Existence.
What do you mean by “existence” being the first cause?
Storyteller wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:05 ambecause everything has a beginning. There has to be a first cause, and that has to be eternal
Do you not see the contradiction in what you just said? Does everything have a beginning, or is there a first cause that is eternal? Which one?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
