Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:39 amREALLY, Ed - THAT is you focus???!!!

Actually my focus at the moment is on being a parent, a husband, a full time kindergarten/preschool teacher, and a gymnastics coach, but I still have time to read the news. After 8 years of anti-Obama hysteria picking out a racist dog whistle is trivial.

Philip wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:39 amDo you bring identity politics into everything?

Do I? I'm the one bring identity politics into it? Me?

Barack HUSSEIN Obama? We'll need to see that guy's long form birth certificate (because right thinking people know he's a Kenyan Muslim), build that Wall (to keep the brown people out), block immigration from those shithole countries (again, no brown people) and get us more (white) Norwegians, make America like it used to be (when the women and coloreds knew their places and white guys didn't have to compete with their inferiors), ban the Muslims and their Sharia law (but not the Christians who want to make us follow Biblical law), and on, and on, and on...

Give me a break, Phil.

If Trump was concerned about accuracy he'd say "covid-19" or "coronavirus" or something along those lines. If he was after geographic specificity he'd call it the "Wuhan virus." If he was looking to attack the Chinese government then he could call it the CCP virus, or Xi's virus, or some such thing, or he could just rail against the Chinese government for failing to contain the coronavirus.

He chose "Chinese virus" because he's trying to tap into preexisting racial animus as a way to fire up his base and distract the media from reporting about his Administration's failures, or maybe on the fact that as of now all of the gains the Dow made during Trump's presidency are gone.

There is no depth to which that man will not sink if it means self preservation.

Ed: Barack HUSSEIN Obama? We'll need to see that guy's long form birth certificate (because right thinking people know he's a Kenyan Muslim), build that Wall (to keep the brown people out), block immigration from those shithole countries (again, no brown people) and get us more (white) Norwegians, make America like it used to be (when the women and coloreds knew their places and white guys didn't have to compete with their inferiors), ban the Muslims and their Sharia law (but not the Christians who want to make us follow Biblical law), and on, and on, and on...

Who brought all that up - certainly not me! I thought we were merely speaking about how a virus is referenced, particularly as any negative connotations about the term "Chinese virus" all has to do with the GOVERNMENT of China and how they've worked in lockstep denial that endangered the entire world. If anyone was blaming the innocent people of China, I'm not seeing it. That this is your focus tells much - given the catastrophe we all face. Oh, BTW, you'll not see me defending stupid or hurtful things Trump has said before. He's an insensitive clod, I'll give you that!

Donald Trump brought all that up. I'm not engaging in identity politics, I'm observing that the President is engaging in identity politics and backing my observation with a bunch of other examples of him doing just that.

He is and he damned well shouldn't be. It's dangerous and irresponsible. Americans are freaked out, and frightened people can be dangerous. All over the country random Asians are being harassed and assaulted. The President has a responsibility to shut that down, not ramp it up. He's welcome to take all the shots he wants at the government of China, but that's not what he's doing. Instead he's drawing as bright and clear a line as he can between Chinese people and the coronavirus, without actually going far enough to lose deniability.

I didn't take you for a CCP supporter Ed? Maybe you should move.

Any reason why Pelosi is blocking Trump on what is basically universal basic income?

What is happening in the US? Democratic state leaders praising Trump. Even Omar praising Trump. Like whaa?

It seems to me that Trump may actually be one of the most progressive candidates now.

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 pmI didn't take you for a CCP supporter Ed? Maybe you should move.

Didn't say I was a CCP supporter, K. Didn't imply it, either. I actually said that if the President wants to take shots at the CCP in general or Xi in particular that's just fine and dandy, but that it's irresponsible and dangerous to try to harness racial antipathy for short term political gain.

It's curious that you read what I wrote and turned it into something completely different. That's dishonest and insincere, K. What's that about?

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 pmAny reason why Pelosi is blocking Trump on what is basically universal basic income?

What? Universal basic income is where people who make less than a certain threshold get a regular income from the government. The GOP plan is to give people a one-time payment, which is actually nothing like a universal basic income. That's not the holdup, though. I'm just mentioning it because your characterization is so inaccurate.
The main issue, as far as I can tell, is that the GOP plan doesn't go far enough. According to this Vox article I just read:

The way it works is that a single person who had little or no income tax liability last year gets a one-time payment of $600. Then as your taxable income increases, that check goes up to $1,200. But then when you reach $75,000 in annual income, the size of the check starts going down again. For married couples, all those numbers double. And each child would be worth $500 in extra help.

The Dems have a couple issues with that.

First off, they figure that the poorest among us are the ones who need the most help, but under this plan they'd be getting the least. That doesn't make a ton of sense from a humanitarian perspective, and it makes even less from a macroeconomic perspective. The point of stimulus is to boost economic activity by getting money to people who will spend it, which makes the poor the most logical recipients. Unless you have some ideological misgivings that overwhelm your ability to think rationally, of course. In that instance you'd go for the current GOP plan.

Second, they don't think the payouts are big enough. The point of the package is to give the economy a big, immediate boost. Go big, pull us back from the brink, give things time to stabilize, and then raise taxes to recoup the payout. Under the GOP plan a low income couple with 2 kids would receive $2200. Under the Dems plan, which IIRC is to simply give $2000 to everyone - literally everyone - who makes less than $99,000, would give that same family $8000. That may seem like an outlandishly massive sum, but that's kind of the point. You don't just want people to make the rent next month, you want them make the rent for the next 4-5 months and still feel secure enough to buy everything they need and then maybe splurge on a Wii and a trampoline to make self-quarantining a bit more bearable. You want the money to move.

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 pmWhat is happening in the US? Democratic state leaders praising Trump. Even Omar praising Trump. Like whaa?

If we're being honest they're actually praising Trump for finally getting serious and doing what needs to be done. The praise is deserved, finally, but it must be tempered by the recollection that he ignored the CDC and his intelligence agencies for 2 months and wasted valuable time blowing smoke, as if the pandemic were just another PR problem that he could talk his way out of. So yeah, way to get in the game, Mr. President. Finally.

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 pmIt seems to me that Trump may actually be one of the most progressive candidates now.

Heh, no. Republicans always blather on about supply side economics and fiscal conservatism, but when the [poop] hits the fan they go full Keynesian. It's as predictable as the tides.

When Biden is President, he should make that young Chinese guy, Yang, vice President. That would be fun.

Ged wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:57 am When Biden is President, he should make that young Chinese guy, Yang, vice President. That would be fun.

But if he’s Chinese, won’t he be responsible for the China virus?

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:07 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 pmI didn't take you for a CCP supporter Ed? Maybe you should move.

Didn't say I was a CCP supporter, K. Didn't imply it, either. I actually said that if the President wants to take shots at the CCP in general or Xi in particular that's just fine and dandy, but that it's irresponsible and dangerous to try to harness racial antipathy for short term political gain.

It's curious that you read what I wrote and turned it into something completely different. That's dishonest and insincere, K. What's that about?

It's the CCP trying to distance "China" from the virus, having the WHO Director-General in their pocket to also help distance. The narrative that it is racist to call the virus Chinese, or China, Wuhan, etc isn't racist. And all your same sources I bet called it that before Trump did. It's just not racist, anymore than saying Chinese food, but it is a narrative that CCP pushed via their mouthpieces.

I'm not sure how I'm being dishonest and sincere, since you. I feel you're often being dishonest and insincere though. I just need to stroll through the posts and always see some far left anti-Trump sentiment you've attached to. The latest being Chinese virus is racist baloney.

It is interesting Trump closing down flights from China early was considered rash and racist. It was reported such was action was too soon, too drastic... and now Trump administration was right to take such early action. That earlier action wasn't taken sooner, is due to Chinese government covering up the seriousness for 2+ months and shutting down people in their own country trying to report on it. Put the blame where it correctly belongs Ed -- China! CCP to specific.

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:56 pm

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:07 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:59 pmI didn't take you for a CCP supporter Ed? Maybe you should move.

Didn't say I was a CCP supporter, K. Didn't imply it, either. I actually said that if the President wants to take shots at the CCP in general or Xi in particular that's just fine and dandy, but that it's irresponsible and dangerous to try to harness racial antipathy for short term political gain.

It's curious that you read what I wrote and turned it into something completely different. That's dishonest and insincere, K. What's that about?

It's the CCP trying to distance "China" from the virus, having the WHO Director-General in their pocket to also help distance. The narrative that it is racist to call the virus Chinese, or China, Wuhan, etc isn't racist. And all your same sources I bet called it that before Trump did. It's just not racist, anymore than saying Chinese food, but it is a narrative that CCP pushed via their mouthpieces.

I'm not sure how I'm being dishonest and sincere, since you. I feel you're often being dishonest and insincere though. I just need to stroll through the posts and always see some far left anti-Trump sentiment you've attached to. The latest being Chinese virus is racist baloney.

It is interesting Trump closing down flights from China early was considered rash and racist. It was reported such was action was too soon, too drastic... and now Trump administration was right to take such early action. That earlier action wasn't taken sooner, is due to Chinese government covering up the seriousness for 2+ months and shutting down people in their own country trying to report on it. Put the blame where it correctly belongs Ed -- China! CCP to specific.

K,

By the very fact that you used the words “China”
and “Chinese”, your entire post is racist.

Sorry, I really didn't realise it was racist...

I'm thinking that I should go visit a local resturant over here that calls themselves Diamond Chinese Resturant. Think they need to know calling themselves "Chinese" is a bit racist.

Who knows, might be good their marketing. They also say that they serve traditional Chinese cuisine. With the virus though, I'm just not sure anyone is bat crazy about Chinese food any more.

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:05 amI'm thinking that I should go visit a local resturant over here that calls themselves Diamond Chinese Resturant. Think they need to know calling themselves "Chinese" is a bit racist.

Yeah, K, go ahead and do that. Go explain how the President calling the coronavirus the "Chinese virus" during a time when angry, frightened people have been harassing and attacking random Asians is precisely the same as referring to Westernized versions of recipes that originated in China as "Chinese food."

I just love it when you guys pretend to be simple minded clowns. Sure does make it easy to have an intelligent conversation. I say something and nobody takes a [love] second to actually think about it. Nope, you just throw on your mental clown suits and dive straight into absurdism.

Taking advantage of preexisting anti-Chinese racism, which has been present in the US for a couple hundred years, in order to appeal to the worst nature of a bunch of angry, frightened people is exactly the same as using the word "Chinese" in any other context, right? I mean, that just makes sense. The word "Chinese" is either racist or it's not. If it is then "Chinese food" is obviously racist, but if it's not then "Chinese virus" can't possibly be. Regardless, it has be one or the other, because it's impossible for speech to have layers of meaning or veiled intent, right?

Ed wrote:
Taking advantage of preexisting anti-Chinese racism...

I resort to simple minded jokes, because It’s difficult to have an intelligent conversation with leftists that don’t know that “Chinese”, and “Mexican” are not races.

RickD wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:08 amI resort to simple minded jokes, because It’s difficult to have an intelligent conversation with leftists that don’t know that “Chinese”, and “Mexican” are not races.

Semantics, Rick.

The President's intent is to draw a distinction between the "good" people - his people (who are overwhelmingly white) - and some convenient "other" or "out group." In the last few years the out groups have been Mexicans and Central Americans, Muslims, anyone from a "shithole" country, and now Chinese. The strategy is simple. He points to a problem being experienced by his people - good, white, Christian people - and then he blames it on the other, while steadfastly ignoring any details that don't support his case. Know what those groups have in common? They're not white. When Trump needs a big applause line or has a crisis to dodge he goes straight to pointing at people who are racially, culturally, linguistically different from his base and blaming everything on them.

In case you needed a refresher on how it works, here you go:

If you're an uneducated white guy who can't find the kind of high paying factory job that your dad and granddad had when they were your age it's because you were screwed over by the Mexicans and Chinese. The fact that a lot of those jobs are still here but now belong to robots is immaterial, as is the fact that the people who replaced workers with robots are actually American. It's a lot easier to get mad at people who look different, talk different, and act different from you than to get mad at an abstract concept like automation.

If you're a white person concerned about terrorism you can take solace in the fact that the President is willing to put all the blame in Islam (which is weird and scary), and shut down Muslim immigration. Nevermind that US foreign policy is a major factor in our problems in the Middle East, or the fact that in the US Islamic terrorists have largely been supplanted by right wing domestic terrorists (who are overwhelmingly white guys).

If you're worried about your country changing as new people immigrate here you're not alone, which is why Trump will throttle immigration from shithole countries in Africa, Asia, and the Caribbean, and encourage people from the good countries in Northern, Central, and Western Europe to come here. Nevermind that the people in "shithole" countries come here looking for an upgraded life, but those Europeans prefer to stay where they are because they see the US as a downgrade. Don't ask why they think that* - just call 'em soccer pansies and change the subject.

And finally, if you're an American who's terrified that covid-19 is going to kill your parents, destroy the economy, and cost you your job you should blame the Chinese for initially suppressing news of the outbreak and failing to react as quickly as they should have, rather than focusing on the fact that Donald J. Trump also ignored reports from his intelligence analysts, ignored advice from the CDC, downplayed the seriousness of the outbreak, and failed to react as quickly as he should have. Be mad at the Chinese government for their failures and deceptions, and also be mad at the Chinese government for Donald J. Trump's failures and deceptions. That's just logical, right?

Wait, what? It's not logical, it's stupid? Because we're not Chinese and we have zero ability to influence, much less chastise, the Chinese government? But as Americans we're very capable of holding Donald J. Trump accountable for his own [love] ups? Huh. No wonder he's trying to shift the blame...

Race baiting is a common strategy used by American populists, and it's a move that Trump has perfected. Decent people should really call him on it, rather than pretending that it's not happening.






* Universal healthcare, excellent safety nets, strong unions, great schools, low crime, and gun violence is almost unheard of...

Ed wrote:
The President's intent is to draw a distinction between the "good" people - his people (who are overwhelmingly white) - and some convenient "other" or "out group." In the last few years the out groups have been Mexicans...

And this just shows your bias and/or ignorance.

Mexicans consist of a large percent of the population that are Caucasian, of European descent.

Mexico isn’t a race, just like US citizens isn’t a race. So, you and the rest of the left, have to make this about race. Why is that? The left doesn’t like someone, such as Trump, so you label him a racist. It’s a disgusting tactic.