Evidence for God from Science

Stu,

I got home from work, and there was a tv segment about the 1986 Challenger Shuttle disaster. I remember watching this live when it happened.

What is the flat earth/space travel denying explanation for this? Was this disaster a fake explosion, concocted by NASA as another conspiracy?

DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:40 am

Stu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:14 am You refuse to conduct actual science that I gave you the chance to do.

No... in response to your false assertions I provided a number of simple activities (based on REAL science) that anyone can do.

At 8 miles the red light should be hidden by 30.16 feet of curvature BUT IT IS NOT. What don't you understand about this FACT???? There is no curvature.

Your video actually does refer to the scientific reason for what the video is showing (atmospheric refraction) but then just dismisses the REAL science behind what is being shown.

Here's a quick description of the basic science behind "Atmospheric Refraction"
https://www.ck12.org/book/cbse-physics- ... ction/2.4/

Like I said those links you provide have been proven false many times over by SCIENCE

And Like I said you are simply wrong...
Nothing in those videos that I have presented have been disproved by anyone.
Because they are TRUE.
Unlike the Flat Earth Lie.

Pastor Dean Odle has said that he has never seen anything convert more atheists, alien-believers and agnostics than flat earth in his 32 years of ministry. Thousands are being saved and making Jesus lord of their life. You should read the testimonies it's amazing.

And many many more people are being led to Christ by people who are NOT perpetuating the Flat Earth lie.

For refraction to take place you need colder air above a warmer surface which creates a condition called temperature inversion to bend light. If the surface temperature is not warmer refraction will not take place.

And guess what all the 3 tests that Pastor Dean Odle done had the opposite conditions, so the conditions for refraction were not correct, so it couldn't have been refraction.

You can see the test he done over 10 miles in this link, start at 1:25:01. Remember the temperature and conditions were NOT right for refraction to occur in this test. And yet you could see the buildings and highway that should have been covered by a huge bulge of water.

https://youtu.be/ZUygOZIYhk4?list=PLbJU ... rR4v8IY9nH

However it is not some miraculous effect that can bend light no matter how big the curve. It is limited to how high it can project over a huge bulge of water or land.

For instance you can see the Chicago skyline from 65 miles away (photos and long videos have been taken of it going from day into night) and you have 0.21 degrees of refraction to get the light to bend around the curve to see it. When you do the refraction calculation there is only 0.05 degrees. Not bending the light enough at all. That is the math.

It's affect on light in the lower atmosphere is tiny in comparison to what is actually needed to bend the light sufficiently to see objects that should be hidden under the horizon (by curvature). A flat earth is the conclusion.

If you want to know more about refraction check out this video and start at 43:26 it goes into the all the math calculations that are needed.

https://youtu.be/QJg-Q7CKowg?list=PLbJU ... rR4v8IY9nH

Refraction is not a magical fix all solution for long distance bending of light. It has limitations.

Yes people are getting saved, BUT how many more are getting turned away as young children, teenagers and adults when modern science and the globe earth don't match up with what the Bible teaches. Many many many more than what are getting saved.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:34 pm Stu,

I got home from work, and there was a tv segment about the 1986 Challenger Shuttle disaster. I remember watching this live when it happened.

What is the flat earth/space travel denying explanation for this? Was this disaster a fake explosion, concocted by NASA as another conspiracy?

I don't have answers for stuff like that.

Some people believe that no one died in the shuttle explosion that day. Some people believe they are still alive, and people have found doppelgangers of these people, photos included in the link and the similarities accounted for ageing are uncanny, and they are even using their original or similar names.

https://newspunch.com/the-challenger-sp ... tly-alive/

https://aplanetruth.info/theyre-alive-c ... -disaster/

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:56 am
And guess what all the 3 tests that Pastor Dean Odle done had the opposite conditions, so the conditions for refraction were not correct, so it couldn't have been refraction.

To be very blunt...
Pastor Odle is a fraud.
None of his alleged flat earth "science" has been corroborated by any legitimate scientific entity.

Atmospheric refraction does explain why objects below the horizon can be "seen".
Atmospheric refraction does explain why you can "see" the sun for two minutes even after it is below the horizon.
In fact the scientific principle of refraction is key to how our eyes work.

Here is an easy way for anyone to see that flat earthers are wrong.

Take a pair of binoculars and watch a boat on a lake or ocean go over the horizon.
Which part of the boat disappears first?
... the bottom of the boat disappears first, and as you watch eventually the mast or top of the boat will disappear last.
The bottom of the boat disappears first and the top disappears last because the boat is going over a curved surface as it goes over the horizon

This principle of the bottom of an object disappearing before the top disappears as an object goes over the horizon is true regardless of atmospheric refraction.
It's true when a boat goes over the horizon.
It's true when the sun goes over the horizon.

And this is how mankind knew the earth was a globe long before we were able to leave the surface of the planet and actually take pictures of what our planet looks like.

Today we have so many photos and videos of the earth from satellites, and spacecraft over the decades from many different organizations and countries. And so many people have actually seen the earth from space.
There is simply no excuse for people to be perpetuating the flat earth lie in this day and age.

This is why I have no problem at all using the tern "fraud" for people like Pastor Odle who perpetuate the flat earth lie.
It is a disgrace to the name of Jesus for people to attempt to associate the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:29 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:56 am
And guess what all the 3 tests that Pastor Dean Odle done had the opposite conditions, so the conditions for refraction were not correct, so it couldn't have been refraction.

To be very blunt...
Pastor Odle is a fraud.
None of his alleged flat earth "science" has been corroborated by any legitimate scientific entity.

Atmospheric refraction does explain why objects below the horizon can be "seen".
Atmospheric refraction does explain why you can "see" the sun for two minutes even after it is below the horizon.
In fact the scientific principle of refraction is key to how our eyes work.

Here is an easy way for anyone to see that flat earthers are wrong.

Take a pair of binoculars and watch a boat on a lake or ocean go over the horizon.
Which part of the boat disappears first?
... the bottom of the boat disappears first, and as you watch eventually the mast or top of the boat will disappear last.
The bottom of the boat disappears first and the top disappears last because the boat is going over a curved surface as it goes over the horizon

This principle of the bottom of an object disappearing before the top disappears as an object goes over the horizon is true regardless of atmospheric refraction.
It's true when a boat goes over the horizon.
It's true when the sun goes over the horizon.

And this is how mankind knew the earth was a globe long before we were able to leave the surface of the planet and actually take pictures of what our planet looks like.

Today we have so many photos and videos from satellites, and spacecraft over the decades from many different organizations and countries. And so many people have actually seen the earth from space.
There is simply no excuse for people to be perpetuating the flat earth lie in this day and age.

This is why I have no problem at all using the tern "fraud" for people like Pastor Odle who perpetuate the flat earth lie.
It is a disgrace to the name of Jesus for people to attempt to associate the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That math was not Pastor Dean's he got it from a teacher, he gave the math to Pastor Dean, but it seems even math isn't good enough for you. Prove his math wrong or again you aren't interested in science, all you continuously do is hand wave with false accusations against Pastor Dean with zero proof to back it up.

Again, your example of a boat going over the horizon is easily proven false. All you need is a camera, and when your binoculars seem to show that the boat is going over the curve just use a 86x zoom camera like the Nikon P900 and zoom all the way in and the boat will come into full view. It has been demonstrated over and over.

Here are some pictures.

As for your supposed curvature from a balloon. It is nothing but the result of a fish-eye lens camera like a Go Pro.

Do you see the curvature of the earth at about 100 feet!!! And the same curvature at 14 miles!! Are you able to see the earths curvature at 100 feet?? There are tons of pics of no curvature as high as 120,000 feet. You should see some footage of a fish-eye lens it is actually quite funny, if you move the camera around the earth curvature goes from concave to convex to flat, it is quite hilarious.




Here is a picture from a camera without a fish-eye lens at 100,000 feet at the bottom. Note the NASA fish-eye lens at the top.




Look at what Lake Tahoe supposedly looks like from space and then look at the flat reality on the ground.





And look at these supposed pictures from NASA of the earth from space. Complete and utter failure in terms of dimensions, and they expect people to believe this???




And finally take Lake Baikal in Russia, it freezes over in winter and is 395 miles long. Yet THERE IS NO CURVATURE. How do you explain that? Where is the 20 miles of curved ice?





There are tons of more proof like this.

The ONLY time you see curved water is from NASA photos because as everyone knows water ALWAYS finds it's level.

Pastor Dean has been in the ministry for 33 years and I think has brought more people to Jesus than you have. He always puts Jesus front and centre in his ministry, always. Flat earth is but a small part of what he does. But it is bringing more people to Jesus than ever.

This topic reminds me of Rick D. telling us that Covid vaccines were dangerous.

Fliegender wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:57 am This topic reminds me of Rick D. telling us that Covid vaccines were dangerous.

Show my quote where I said Covid vaccines are dangerous. And when you can’t produce the quote where I said Covid vaccines are dangerous, then I expect a retraction and apology.

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:10 am
Again, your example of a boat going over the horizon is easily proven false. All you need is a camera, and when your binoculars seem to show that the boat is going over the curve just use a 86x zoom camera like the Nikon P900 and zoom all the way in and the boat will come into full view. It has been demonstrated over and over.

I am very content for anyone to try this out and see for themselves who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Here are some examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_TpeNZYTmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nZ4n_l9ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzSmWyZbexc

And since we are in the internet age when people from all over the world have access to this site.
When it is 12:00 noon in Detroit it is also 12:00 midnight in Perth.
At the very same time that the sun is high in the sky in Detroit it is midnight in Perth and the sun is nowhere to be seen.
Just another of many many many evidences that flat earth is a lie.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:10 am
Again, your example of a boat going over the horizon is easily proven false. All you need is a camera, and when your binoculars seem to show that the boat is going over the curve just use a 86x zoom camera like the Nikon P900 and zoom all the way in and the boat will come into full view. It has been demonstrated over and over.

I am very content for anyone to try this out and see for themselves who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Here are some examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_TpeNZYTmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nZ4n_l9ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzSmWyZbexc

And since we are in the internet age when people from all over the world have access to this site.
When it is 12:00 noon in Detroit it is also 12:00 midnight in Perth.
At the very same time that the sun is high in the sky in Detroit it is midnight in Perth and the sun is nowhere to be seen.
Just another of many many many evidences that flat earth is a lie.

I see you made zero comment on the pictures I put up. Head in the sand?

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:23 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:10 am
Again, your example of a boat going over the horizon is easily proven false. All you need is a camera, and when your binoculars seem to show that the boat is going over the curve just use a 86x zoom camera like the Nikon P900 and zoom all the way in and the boat will come into full view. It has been demonstrated over and over.

I am very content for anyone to try this out and see for themselves who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Here are some examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_TpeNZYTmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nZ4n_l9ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzSmWyZbexc

And since we are in the internet age when people from all over the world have access to this site.
When it is 12:00 noon in Detroit it is also 12:00 midnight in Perth.
At the very same time that the sun is high in the sky in Detroit it is midnight in Perth and the sun is nowhere to be seen.
Just another of many many many evidences that flat earth is a lie.

I see you made zero comment on the pictures I put up. Head in the sand?

No... there was nothing there to comment on...
There are multiple photos and videos from space that show the earth is a globe and your false comments are irrelevant.

I believe it is much more effective to simply point to truth than to get in the weeds trying to rebut every false assertion that someone might make.

If you want to see a boat or ship go over the horizon, I am happy to show video of boats going over the horizon.
If you want to see photos of what the earth looks like from space I am happy to point to photos of earth from space.
If you want to know proofs that the earth is not flat I will gladly point to links with proofs that anyone can verify for themslelf.

I believe spending time pointing to the truth is more effective than spending time rebutting lies.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:31 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:23 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:10 am
Again, your example of a boat going over the horizon is easily proven false. All you need is a camera, and when your binoculars seem to show that the boat is going over the curve just use a 86x zoom camera like the Nikon P900 and zoom all the way in and the boat will come into full view. It has been demonstrated over and over.

I am very content for anyone to try this out and see for themselves who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Here are some examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_TpeNZYTmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nZ4n_l9ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzSmWyZbexc

And since we are in the internet age when people from all over the world have access to this site.
When it is 12:00 noon in Detroit it is also 12:00 midnight in Perth.
At the very same time that the sun is high in the sky in Detroit it is midnight in Perth and the sun is nowhere to be seen.
Just another of many many many evidences that flat earth is a lie.

I see you made zero comment on the pictures I put up. Head in the sand?

No... there was nothing there to comment on...
There are multiple photos and videos from space that show the earth is a globe and your false comments are irrelevant.

I believe it is much more effective to simply point to truth than to get in the weeds trying to rebut every false assertion that someone might make.

If you want to see a boat or ship go over the horizon, I am happy to show video of boats going over the horizon.
If you want to see photos of what the earth looks like from space I am happy to point to photos of earth from space.
If you want to know proofs that the earth is not flat I will gladly point to links with proofs that anyone can verify for themslelf.

I believe spending time pointing to the truth is more effective than spending time rebutting lies.

Sorry but that is absolute nonsense, and NOT how science works.

I am showing you pictures that NASA took that do NOT make sense and you just pass it off as if it's nothing.

I show you a lake that is flat, yet is curved from a NASA picture.

You are putting your head in the sand and are making the claim that only YOU know the truth. That is NOT how science works. I am challenging you and you have no argument so you are using the logical fallacy of an argument from authority.

It is NOT how science works. I have had more honest debates with atheists than you.

You are acting like atheists do when they act from an argument from authority. It is very unbecoming and quite frankly disingenuous and I would expect more from someone who supposedly holds up science and truth. Very disappointing that you can't even shoot down some basic pictures which disprove the globe. Anyway I will end it there for now as you are clearly sitting on your high horse and have no clue what you are talking about. Will take on your proofs at a later stage, but would like an answer on the clouds behind the sun.

Well I will leave you with two more and maybe just maybe you can comment on how the clouds are behind the sun in this picture. There is a guy that all he does is take pictures of clouds that are behind the sun. Impossible on the heliocentric model.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:07 am

Last time I checked, facepalms do not equal repudiation of an argument
Rather it shows the lack of one.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:29 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:56 am
And guess what all the 3 tests that Pastor Dean Odle done had the opposite conditions, so the conditions for refraction were not correct, so it couldn't have been refraction.

To be very blunt...
Pastor Odle is a fraud.
None of his alleged flat earth "science" has been corroborated by any legitimate scientific entity.

Atmospheric refraction does explain why objects below the horizon can be "seen".
Atmospheric refraction does explain why you can "see" the sun for two minutes even after it is below the horizon.
In fact the scientific principle of refraction is key to how our eyes work.

Here is an easy way for anyone to see that flat earthers are wrong.

Take a pair of binoculars and watch a boat on a lake or ocean go over the horizon.
Which part of the boat disappears first?
... the bottom of the boat disappears first, and as you watch eventually the mast or top of the boat will disappear last.
The bottom of the boat disappears first and the top disappears last because the boat is going over a curved surface as it goes over the horizon

This principle of the bottom of an object disappearing before the top disappears as an object goes over the horizon is true regardless of atmospheric refraction.
It's true when a boat goes over the horizon.
It's true when the sun goes over the horizon.

And this is how mankind knew the earth was a globe long before we were able to leave the surface of the planet and actually take pictures of what our planet looks like.

Today we have so many photos and videos of the earth from satellites, and spacecraft over the decades from many different organizations and countries. And so many people have actually seen the earth from space.
There is simply no excuse for people to be perpetuating the flat earth lie in this day and age.

This is why I have no problem at all using the tern "fraud" for people like Pastor Odle who perpetuate the flat earth lie.
It is a disgrace to the name of Jesus for people to attempt to associate the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

FWIW,

I’m happy to say that I agree completely with this post. Reading some of the absolute nonsense here, is making me lose hope in humanity. The lengths that people will go through, to justify nonsense as truth is astounding.

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:57 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:31 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:23 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:10 am
Again, your example of a boat going over the horizon is easily proven false. All you need is a camera, and when your binoculars seem to show that the boat is going over the curve just use a 86x zoom camera like the Nikon P900 and zoom all the way in and the boat will come into full view. It has been demonstrated over and over.

I am very content for anyone to try this out and see for themselves who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Here are some examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_TpeNZYTmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nZ4n_l9ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzSmWyZbexc

And since we are in the internet age when people from all over the world have access to this site.
When it is 12:00 noon in Detroit it is also 12:00 midnight in Perth.
At the very same time that the sun is high in the sky in Detroit it is midnight in Perth and the sun is nowhere to be seen.
Just another of many many many evidences that flat earth is a lie.

I see you made zero comment on the pictures I put up. Head in the sand?

No... there was nothing there to comment on...
There are multiple photos and videos from space that show the earth is a globe and your false comments are irrelevant.

I believe it is much more effective to simply point to truth than to get in the weeds trying to rebut every false assertion that someone might make.

If you want to see a boat or ship go over the horizon, I am happy to show video of boats going over the horizon.
If you want to see photos of what the earth looks like from space I am happy to point to photos of earth from space.
If you want to know proofs that the earth is not flat I will gladly point to links with proofs that anyone can verify for themslelf.

I believe spending time pointing to the truth is more effective than spending time rebutting lies.

Sorry but that is absolute nonsense, and NOT how science works.

If you are correct, then you should be able to point to a legitimate scientific organization or entity that supports your 'flat earth' assertions.
However, your assertions are repeatedly in direct conflict with REAL science, which is why this thread has shown that you don't understand science.

BTW...
You have not yet attempted to explain how the sun could be high in the sky in Detroit at the same time it is midnight and totally dark in Perth if the earth is flat.