Evidence for God from Science

Kmart wrote:So will the great oz give us the Biblical definitions??

I tried looking for it, couldn't find a good site just now...


Yet, there is a call for capital punishment in the Bible..

I don't know the biblical definition. I thought I was asking you what it is? Or maybe it was Dan? I'd have to refer back.

octoset wrote:if God didn't want them dead, they wouldn't be on death row to begin with. God invented the gas chamber for a reason.

This statement is only valid if you hold that nothing happens unless it's God's plan? Therefore, if something happens it is God's plan. In that case, the fact Terrorists killed 3,000 people in the 9-11 bombing is God's plan. U.S. soliders dieing daily in Iraq is God's plan. By extension, Homosexuals wanting to marry is God's plan.

I tend to agree with Prodigal Son. You might want to rethink your hypothesis because you are essentially arguing that no one can do any wrong. The mere fact that someone does something (anything) it is by God's hand. This position is out of sync with both OT & NT, since in both books God gave us free will, thus indicating that he left it up to us to decide.

The Majority Arguement
If the majority rules, taxes should be higher. Abortion is not wrong. Al Gore should have been in office in 2000. You later wrote that we live in a Republic. True, but not quite.

ochotseat wrote:You can't compare a hooker to a killer.

Why not? God does. Every sinner deserves death, but we have grace through Jesus.

Romans 3:22-25
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

If God gave us Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, who are we to put people to death? God can take their life if that is His will, just like He did with Ananias and Sapphira.

I don't know the biblical definition. I thought I was asking you what it is? Or maybe it was Dan? I'd have to refer back.

Heck if I know...I thought you might.

simply a retarded statement.

Yes, your past post was.

man invented the chair. if you can't see that, you're more lost than i thought.

Who invented man and the materials used to build the chair or in this case, the gas chamber?

umm, i really have no problem with that. most conservatives are sick.

Not as sick as some liberals.

almost everyone on this planet is sick.

Speak for yourself.

maybe you are the one who isn't listening to yourself. reasons based on prejudice/emotion are not real reasons.

I guess you enjoy ignoring the Bible, the American majority, and the Constitution. Where does it say in the Bible that the death penalty is wrong?

almost all criminals turn back to crime...

the reason for this was explained to you. your having had this belief was based on ignorance. maintaining it is a result of unreasonableness, stubbornness/pride.

It's based on stats. Don't like it? Blame the criminals instead of blaming their victims..

this was also explained to you to no avail. stubbornness

Explains your stance against what the Bible says about the death penalty being justified.

maybe YOUR God, but not mine. this is called greed.

No, it's YOUR greed for wanting innocent law-abiding people's money wasted on murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc. That's perverse.

blind faith, misplaced trust (you should be trusting the word of God, not the majority), ignorance

This is a republic. If you don't like it, you are free to move to theocratic Saudi Arabia, autocratic North Korea, or liberal Old Europe where the death penalty is outlawed.

if someone murdered your spouse/child, would you want that person to live?

selfishness/revenge

See how he ignores the question. I guess he'll love that person.

actually, i supported the death penalty until i became christian.

Most death penalty supporters are Christians---President Bush is one great example.

you need to start thinking for yourself...wait, that might not be such a good idea.

Speak for yourself. Did you get your anti-death penalty stance from that feminist nun who's written anti-death penalty books?

Felgar wrote: Why not? God does. Every sinner deserves death, but we have grace through Jesus.
God can take their life if that is His will, just like He did with Ananias and Sapphira.

Where does it say in the Bible that every sinner deserves death? If that's the case, no one would be alive in this world.

By your reasoning, we shouldn't imprison people at all since God will do that if he wishes it.

arretium wrote: This statement is only valid if you hold that nothing happens unless it's God's plan? Therefore, if something happens it is God's plan. In that case, the fact Terrorists killed 3,000 people in the 9-11 bombing is God's plan. U.S. soliders dieing daily in Iraq is God's plan. By extension, Homosexuals wanting to marry is God's plan.
.

Well, Robertson and Falwell said 9/11 was God's plan. If you're criticizing the Iraqi War, why not criticize the war on terror to boot?

arretium wrote: This position is out of sync with both OT & NT, since in both books God gave us free will, thus indicating that he left it up to us to decide..

Yes, for us to decide if a murderer lives or dies.

arretium wrote: If the majority rules, taxes should be higher. ..

Most taxpayers don't like higher taxes.

arretium wrote: Abortion is not wrong. .

Depends on the area, but most Americans don't favor partial birth abortion.

arretium wrote:Al Gore should have been in office in 2000. .

Not according to the electoral college.

arretium wrote:
You later wrote that we live in a Republic. True, but not quite.

Look in the dictionary.

ochotseat wrote:Well, Robertson and Falwell said 9/11 was God's plan. If you're criticizing the Iraqi War, why not criticize the war on terror to boot?

Now I know why you speak with anger.

Most taxpayers don't like higher taxes.

Wrong. Americans favor higher taxes to eliminate the federal deficit. Americans favor increasing taxes to prevent cuts to Social Secuirty.

Not according to the electoral college.

You stated that majority should rule. The majority voted for Al Gore, not George Bush. Thus, you hold Al Gore should have won office. In fact, many suspect that he really did. Are you now changing your position? Do you now hold that there should be majority rule when it suits your preference?

Look in the dictionary.

Another inflammatory statement. I know the definition of a Republic. We do not have a true Republic because we don't have direct representative government, rather we have a legislative branch (Senate) that assigns positions based on states and not population. We have a another legislative branch that assigns seats (House) to states that should have less than one seat based on population proportionalatey (Idaho or Wyoming for example). We have a President that can be elected to office based on the will of a minority. Since a true Republic requires majority rule, we do not have a true Republic.

Most other intentional misstatements of my reasoning deleted.

Though Shall Not Kill...

Now I know why you speak with anger.

They're not angry.

Wrong. Americans favor higher taxes to eliminate the federal deficit. Americans favor increasing taxes to prevent cuts to Social Secuirty.

Gee, is that why voters tend to reject candidates who favor higher taxes?

You stated that majority should rule. The majority voted for Al Gore, not George Bush.

Nope. The votes were recounted over and over, and Bush won Florida in '00.

Since a true Republic requires majority rule, we do not have a true Republic.

Our government is run by representatives elected by the majority of voters. That's a republic.

Most other intentional misstatements of my reasoning deleted

Again, the Bible and American people back the death penalty. It's here to stay. You liberals should be content with the fact that the death penalty has been banned in a few states by activist and socialist judges.

Though Shall Not Kill...

That only applies toward innocent people.

again, my friend...pride, stubbornness, ignorance keep you blind. you have refused to listen to anyone here, viewing everything as an attack and not allowing yourself to accept any corrections to your beliefs.

you've been told that the majority doesn't matter (not even your dear president's stance), you've been told how the bible's stance on the death penalty was changed and why, you've been given the bible's stance on mercy and sin...

it comes down to allowing yourself to be humbled in order to be able to learn about God's word.

you were right on one thing, i did overlook one of your questions. so here's my answer:

if someone murdered your spouse/child, would you want that person to live?

no, i wouldn't want them to live. i'd want to torture them and then kill them (the scene in sin city where that guy gets his arms and legs chopped off and then gets eaten by his dog comes to mind). but, it doesn't matter what i want, i matters what God has told us we must do and how we must behave.

p.s. yes, most conservatives are sick and so is most of this world. that is why Jesus came to save us. your attempts to raise yourself above anyone else in moral standing (even a murderer) reminds me of the pharisees. remember: as it is written: there is none righteous, no, not one. --Romans 3:10

and finally, you need to go back and read the bible again if you really think that God invented the gas chamber/electric chair.

Darwin_Rocks wrote:Though Shall Not Kill...

MURDER, MURDER, it's not KILL!

Darwin_Rocks wrote:Though Shall Not Kill...

Format your hard drive and cancel your internet subscription.

Prodigal Son wrote: again, my friend...pride, stubbornness, ignorance keep you blind. you have refused to listen to anyone here, viewing everything as an attack and not allowing yourself to accept any corrections to your beliefs.

you've been told that the majority doesn't matter (not even your dear president's stance), you've been told how the bible's stance on the death penalty was changed and why, you've been given the bible's stance on mercy and sin...

it comes down to allowing yourself to be humbled in order to be able to learn about God's word.

you were right on one thing, i did overlook one of your questions. so here's my answer:

if someone murdered your spouse/child, would you want that person to live?

no, i wouldn't want them to live. i'd want to torture them and then kill them (the scene in sin city where that guy gets his arms and legs chopped off and then gets eaten by his dog comes to mind). but, it doesn't matter what i want, i matters what God has told us we must do and how we must behave.

p.s. yes, most conservatives are sick and so is most of this world. that is why Jesus came to save us. your attempts to raise yourself above anyone else in moral standing (even a murderer) reminds me of the pharisees. remember: as it is written: there is none righteous, no, not one. --Romans 3:10

and finally, you need to go back and read the bible again if you really think that God invented the gas chamber/electric chair.

Sounds like you don't believe that God created the inventor of the electric chair or the materials used to construct it.

The Bible, most Americans, and most Protestant ministers back the death penalty. Why do most Protestant ministers OK the death penalty?
To waste law-abiding people's money on people who inflict the most harm on God's children is unthinkable. Christ did not directly criticize the death penalty. He did say love your enemy, but that does not mean they should be excused for crimes. If we had it your way, we'd just put Bin Laden under house arrest.

Prodigal Son wrote: again, my friend...pride, stubbornness, ignorance keep you blind. you have refused to listen to anyone here, viewing everything as an attack and not allowing yourself to accept any corrections to your beliefs.

you've been told that the majority doesn't matter (not even your dear president's stance), you've been told how the bible's stance on the death penalty was changed and why, you've been given the bible's stance on mercy and sin...

it comes down to allowing yourself to be humbled in order to be able to learn about God's word.

Couldn't have said it better myself Prodigal. Were there a real argument to be made it could be made with scripture rather than appealing to the good sense of saving a little tax money.

Sounds like you don't believe that God created the inventor of the electric chair or the materials used to construct it.

That doesn't mean God Himself made the electric chair. God made the tree of good and evil, and He also made Lucifer who fell from heaven, but He didn't make Adam and Eve sin, and if He did, God would be a sadistic jerk...but He didn't do it!