Evidence for God from Science

Here we might have an argument.

It is only the homosexual's fault if he/she decides on a sinful lifestyle. No argument there.


However, I don't think people who are attracted to the same sex are actively sinning. Sin needs a conscious decision to become a sin, and I don't think most homosexuals make a conscious decision to become gay.

Forge wrote:Here we might have an argument.

It is only the homosexual's fault if he/she decides on a sinful lifestyle. No argument there.


However, I don't think people who are attracted to the same sex are actively sinning. Sin needs a conscious decision to become a sin, and I don't think most homosexuals make a conscious decision to become gay.

But Jesus said that you've committed adultery in your heart if you lust after someone who isn't your spouse.

If someone fantasizes about raping someone or having sex with his or her own children, isn't that wrong?

I like the Protestant idea that homosexuals can become heterosexuals, so that should be preached rather than queer celibacy. Maybe that's our area of disagreement.

ochotseat wrote:But Jesus said that you've committed adultery in your heart if you lust after someone who isn't your spouse.

If someone fantasizes about raping someone or having sex with his or her own children, isn't that wrong?

I like the Protestant idea that homosexuals can become heterosexuals, so that should be preached rather than queer celibacy. Maybe that's our area of disagreement.

Whoa mate.
First, I believe Catholics also believe homosexuals can be "rehabilitated" and I believe it too.

However, you're jumping to conclusions on the first point. I mentioned nothing about "lust". I mean, we've all seen a hot chick somewhere, and I'll bet we've felt some attraction to that person. (Along the line of "Damn! She's hella fine!") If I take another look at some attractive person, I haven't committed lust, since lust is an active sin. I'm talking more of a gay person thinking "dude, that's a hot guy!" not "I'm imagining what it feels like to do things with that hot guy!"

Forge wrote: Whoa mate.
First, I believe Catholics also believe homosexuals can be "rehabilitated" and I believe it too.

Some believe that, but most do not. That's why many priests tend to promote celibacy rather than rehabilitation of homosexuals.

Well, those aren't exclusive of the other.

Forge wrote:Well, those aren't exclusive of the other.

Ok, so you may disagree with the traditional Catholic view on homosexuality. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Meh. I'll have to doublecheck the CCC to make sure or not

do you guys think that they actually chose at some moment in time to be gay? i mean, some do, i suppose...but i KNOW some just are. i know we've all heard this before, but i never chose to be heterosexual. i just am.

also, why do many homosexuals speak with lisps and have such feminine gestures? those can be learned, i know. but i have seen many children like this too. one person i knew who was like this ended up being gay. i don't know, seems some part of it has to be biological.

Prodigal Son wrote:do you guys think that they actually chose at some moment in time to be gay? i mean, some do, i suppose...but i KNOW some just are. i know we've all heard this before, but i never chose to be heterosexual. i just am.

also, why do many homosexuals speak with lisps and have such feminine gestures? those can be learned, i know. but i have seen many children like this too. one person i knew who was like this ended up being gay. i don't know, seems some part of it has to be biological.

So effeminate gays can't try to act masculine and masculine lesbians can't try to act feminine?
Homosexuality is said to be caused by imbalances in the brain and environmental factors but so is criminal behavior. Are both excusable in a moral society? No. Every individual makes a choice and is rewarded or punished for it by God and government.

But, Ocho, you're equivocating.

Criminal Tendencies/desires != evil criminal activity

just as I believe

Homosexual preference != evil homosexual activity

so you think the government should punish homosexuals?

Prodigal Son wrote:so you think the government should punish homosexuals?

No, but it shouldn't ratify it either.

Forge wrote:But, Ocho, you're equivocating.

Criminal Tendencies/desires != evil criminal activity

just as I believe

Homosexual preference != evil homosexual activity

No, Forge, I'm not giving an indefinite answer. I was questioning the Catholic Church's position on homosexuals being able to change or not.
It appears that the Vatican may be wrong on the homosexual topic.

That's why Protestantism is growing mainly through evangelism while Catholicism is growing mostly through high birth rates in certain countries.

Yes, you are giving an indefinite answer. You're equating the act and the unconscious desire.

sure we should.