Evidence for God from Science

Prodigal Son wrote:dan,

hope your family is okay. yes, we had no business there, but God can always bring good even from the actions of the foolish.

Bush had every right to go in there and kick ass. He should've secured the border so terrorist groups couldn't get into the country first though.

Whatever, all is good now.

i don't think he had any right to go in and do anything.

what are his lies?

Follow the links at the top of the thread, too many to list here.

i don't think he had any right to go in and do anything.

By what authority do you say that?

skimmed through it. but i have to say, i still like him! probably because i hate bush so much!

by who's authority? hmm, i don't really think i need anyones authority. if so, by my own.

kateliz wrote:I thought about that too, but doubt any came at him with a loaded gun, lever thing cocked! That may be wishful thinking on your part, but probably didn't happen!

I was thinking more along the lines of bats or clubs, but it's all good.

probably because i hate bush so much!

So it is hatred, at least you had the guts to say it. I respect your right to your view. At least you have the freedom to hold that view without fear of persecution, something Iraqi's did not have before the war.

by who's authority? hmm, i don't really think i need anyones authority. if so, by my own.

It's not quite what I meant, but ok. I meant to ask if you don't believe that there is higher authorities like in government for example.

august:

yes, my friend, it is hatred. i know it. but i've also listened to the other side; i think i am justified in my hatred...and so i coddle it.

...higher authorities like...government...

i don't like our government. i don't trust it anymore. so, probably, no.

i think i am justified in my hatred...and so i coddle it.

How do you justify it?

i don't like our government. i don't trust it anymore. so, probably, no.

Did you like the previous government? Why don't you trust the US government?

how do i justify it? i think bush is a liar. i don't see anything christian about him. i think he's evil, self-centered, and selfish. there's more, i'm sure .

truly? i think the last two elections were fixed. call me paranoid.

whatever.

Prodigal Son wrote:how do i justify it? i think bush is a liar. i don't see anything christian about him. i think he's evil, self-centered, and selfish. there's more, i'm sure .

Even if you're right, that doesn't justify your hatred. You know better than that.

August August August Blood.
U that man setting up the 'kill Moore campaign'?- sounds it.

no.1 - If i wonna roll with with M. moore's theories to some extent- damn it i will- I got my own mind, own choices and I can 'choose' what I believe and what I disgard after reading/ watching M. Moore.
And people all over the world can do exactly the same.

U.S government lies- Too little ones.
Theres these big ol' nasty nuclear weapons just chillin in SAaddams back garden.

The fact that by going to war they now are in such a better position in relation to oil.

I'm sorry but freedom of the Iraqi people was not the main motive- it was a convenient option so the world would get behind them-
Don't get me wrong Iam totally down with freedom for everybody- and am Pleased Iraq is a better place to live from Iraqi civilians.

Its an achievement for Moore for letting people know there is a different side and that everything ur wonderful Government does and tells you is not nessessarily 'right or tru'.

Peace people.

PEACE wrote:U.S government lies- Too little ones.
Theres these big ol' nasty nuclear weapons just chillin in SAaddams back garden.

The fact that by going to war they now are in such a better position in relation to oil.

I'm sorry but freedom of the Iraqi people was not the main motive- it was a convenient option so the world would get behind them-
Don't get me wrong Iam totally down with freedom for everybody- and am Pleased Iraq is a better place to live from Iraqi civilians.

Clearly the US government does lie; you're not alone there though, you should see what the Canadian government's been up to. They were simpy stealing envelopes full of money received as bribes from various individuals and corporations. And then they funnelled like over 100 Million into their party which funded their last election victory. Sigh. Anyways, that's a little off-topic, but the point is that it's not just the US government, and not only THIS US government that has serious issues.

One thing people need to understand, is that the primary motivation for the US government declaring war was to protect its people. The government believed that once Saddam did attain the capabilty, he would certainly launch a tragic suprise attack on the US that could literally kill millions. It was a preemptive strike, plain and simple. And while I'm not keen on precedent of fighting a preemptive war, I do believe that Bush was justified in it, because he is compelled to eliminate threats to the Amercian people. And if he believed Saddam to certainly be a threat in the near future (which I believe he did) then he is justified in mitigating that threat.

Also, I don't agree with all the talk that America doesn't care about freedom. America most certainly does, and the reason for it, is that free Democracies are much less prone to causing wars than dictatorships. Again, the underlying motivation is protection of American people, and also of their way of life by the promotion of Democracy and freedom around the world.

Oil was NOT the primary concern. The primary concerns were 1) eliminating a determined and erratic enemy of the US, and 2) promoting stability in the Middle East and the world by setting up Democratic rule wherever possible. Of secondary consideration was the cost of oil (don't forget it's $50/barrel now, up far from when the war began, and America's doing just fine.) Also of secondary consideration is the welfare of the Iraqi people - that's just a great benefit of what they get out of a stable and Democratic government.

Personally I think that the world is better off with America having defeated Saddam. He was defeated with fewer than 2000 casualities. Just like Hitler could have been defeated with minimal loss of 1936, compared to the over 50 Million who died because the world waited too long to respond, consider how much worse it could have been if Saddam was allowed to attain any measure of real power.

yehhhhhhhhhh.......

Oil for me was still an important part- Not just for America as a country- but for the Individuals at the top of The U.S government-
'THEIR OIL COMAPNIES' -The ones laying pipes in The east,
the ones garenteed contracts in the East without outside compitition from any other companies.
the ones doing Maintanance work in the East-
Damage caused by the War.
they all profit twice.
They win the war- save the people- and get rich themselves.
G. Bush was into making money before he was the president- and he aint gunna be president foreva, Y not increase his finacial state

My frustration is ppl beefing on M.moore for telling lies and 'misdirecting' people when I think this superpower country does the same and gets praise.
The end of dictatorship is always a good thing- acting quickly and killing only a few is always a good thing-
'lying about the reasons aint.....................
Its only my opinion...... but I wouldn't trust Bush.



ooooooooh Canada a shady place 2, lol


Peace gentleman.

Oil? Please, oil had little to do with it.

The exact reasoning? Probably to jumpstart the peace process in the middle east. The United States has huge leverage now that they have close ties with Iraq, and Israel.

Dan wrote:Oil? Please, oil had little to do with it.

I'm a bit cyncial, thus I think oil did play a part in the decision making.