Puritan, those verses do not support your views. They're fine and dandy for pointing out the dangers of false teachings and believing in them, but they do not support your stance. I agree with you on a lot of things, but I believe you must be too enraptured with your denomination to be wholly objective. You speak a lot of truth, but you throw in with it grave falsehoods that must be pointed out for what they are.
The RCC as an organization is not Christian. I say that, (don't get offended too early,) because the only truly Christian organization is the Body of Christ, comprised of all born-again Christians. Anywhere and everywhere born-again Christians make up this Body, Christ being the Head and the rest of us being individual members, but members of one-another. So the RCC is not Christian in that sense.
It is Christian, however, in the sense that there are members who are indeed Christians, and by and large it does strive to teach Christ's sacrifice, even if they by false teachings end up sometimes and/or often negating that sacrifice. As we've seen, there are plenty members who are true Christians, even if that's despite the RCC's official positions and some taught and practiced positions. This must be recognized, and generalizations, if made for convienience's sake or just to state official positions, must take this into account for truth's sake. We are after truth, so let's face it head-on and fully acknowledge what deserves to be acknowledged.
I would like to state how the Body of Christ is supposed to function if it's to be healthy. Each member is to be individually united in spirit and soul with Christ, our Head. If members are not united with the Head, that means the Body's not healthy! The members are also supposed to be united to each other in both spirit and soul. If the members of the Body are not in union with one another than the Body's not healthy! All members and the Head are to communicate with each other. All members and the Head are to be in harmony with each other. All members and the Head are to move together in union and agreement toward specific goals. That would be the main point of having the Body in the first place! The Body, just like our earthly ones, is an instrument constructed for express purposes of use. The Body must be used, and to be used it must be active and healthy.
Now, my biggest gripe is that the Body's not healthy right now. It's active to a certain degree, but it's really not healthy. I detest all that makes it unhealthy. (And yes, I detest more than the RCC!
) I detest mainly how we do not know how the Body is to move. We are not connected and communicating with the Head, and we do not know how to communicate with each other. The first part of that is pretty obvious as to what I mean. Our relationships with God leave much desired. What I'd like to share with people is how, [geez, I'm kind of getting off-topic. I'll try to recover myself as I go along with this thought,] we are to stay connected and to communicate with the Head, and how we are to communicate with each other, and that so we can utilize this Body we have and get work done. We're only on earth as a pilgrimage for a short while and I want to make the most of it, and that can be done most effectively with the Body working together and not as an individual member.
For now I'll only touch on, (and return back to the topic with,) how the members of the Body are to communicate with eachother. We are each, as born-again believers, given a role in the Body. We each have our own position, role to take on, and specific job to do. Just as the eye is to see, the foot is to support, the hand is to handle, the ear is to hear. Our individual jobs are given to us by God of His wise choosing, and the power and ability for our jobs are also provided by Him.
It is the Body of Christ we are a part of, and Christ is God, and we are in God in Christ, and so we have access to all of His abilities and His power. He gives us these of Himself for our work as His Body. We are
not to use our own feeble abilities and our incredibly weak "power." To do that is to make hay and stubble that will get burned up come Judgement Day. God gives us what we need to do the jobs He's assigned us to. We are not to be our own "head"s.
God has so arranged the members of His Body that they must work together sharing the spiritual gifts God gave them with each other. By this and this alone the Body will communicate member to member, (as the eye to the hand and the ear to the foot.) The teacher must teach, the one who can discern spirits must discern, the apostle must build churches, the one who can speak in tongues and the one who can interpret them should do so, the prophet must declare prophecies, the encourgager must encourage, and on and on with all the rest. You do these services to one another in the Body to encourage and build it up and to move the Body so it may do it's work. They are for building up the Body and for using it for it's purposes.
The way the majority of Christian churches, (or groups of Christians gathered together in His name, as that is what a church is,) actually function is very, very different from how they are supposed to as part of the Body. By and large the only one using their assumed spiritual gift is the preacher, and even if he does have an active spiritual gift it may not be teaching, to be an apostle, or even to be a shepherd! This is how the churches today, including the RCC churches as I mentioned before, perverse the New Testament pattern for churches. It has become that instead of a many membered Body all working together, it is for the most part a two membered Body: the Head and the preacher. There are Sunday School teachers, youth leaders and small group teachers, but where are the other members and where are the gifts? We are babying the "laity" and not trying to get them to mature to take their place in the Body. We feed milk year after year and never are they ready for meat! What needs to change? We need to begin to function as the Body should, with each member doing his or her job to build the Body and to move it.
I, possibly out of lack of other ideas for now, take the example of the early Quaker meetings for an example of what that should look like when we gather together as the Body to build it up and move it. They had a meeting room in each house and they'd move to a new one each Sunday, (or First Day or whatever they called it.) They'd sit there as a group and wait for the Spirit to lead someone to say something for the benefit of the group, presumably to use their spiritual gift. Now, that's the only way I've read of it being tried, but I don't particularly like it too much. I more imagine the group of Chritians gathered together reading the Bible, studying it, talking about the work God's calling them to do, someone teaching at some point, someone encouraging people, someone taking a stand of faith on something, and the like. Each member performing their duties for their spiritual gift.
None of this preacher and laity thing. That's not Biblical. Not even was it done so disctinctly like that in the Old Testament! Not exactly sure how their Sabbaths were handled way back when, but even in the synagogues I know that it wasn't, (and isn't?) such a preist and laity experience as we have in our churches.
And yes, I believe our modern churches, which have their origin in the RCC through Lutheranism, are, as purtian lad put it, "Constantine's church." He is the one who took poor bishops out working for God and put them in opulent church buildings and set them up comfortably and in political power. Many fell for it, at first seeing it as glory to God, but then getting selfish and losing sight of their true vocation as a Christian and servant of God. That's the birth of the RCC and the beginning of the perversion of the New Testament church.
Now where was I? Oh, yes, I believe that's all I wanted to say! Guess maybe after writing this long post I should go back and finish reading those long articles bizzt so kindly made me feel obligated to read!
Not sure I'll get through all them before I give up again!
But thank you all who beared through this long post saturated with views I'm sure many of you have never heard before; I hope it benefits your walk with God somehow.
