Evidence for God from Science

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think that for the born atheist ( for lack of a better word) belief in God is a question of evidence and whether they accept the evidence.
Many simply choose not to.

As long as its clear that is a statement of your opinion, how you see things.

You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

For myself, I cannot fathom how someone can "choose" to believe, or disbelieve.

Belief is not something I can turn on and off.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think that for the born atheist ( for lack of a better word) belief in God is a question of evidence and whether they accept the evidence.
Many simply choose not to.

As long as its clear that is a statement of your opinion, how you see things.

You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

For myself, I cannot fathom how someone can "choose" to believe, or disbelieve.

Belief is not something I can turn on and off.

All we have are opinions.
Of course we can turn belief on and off, we do it all the time.
In reality belief is all about choice.
We choose to believe that the evidence presented is enough or not enough, we choose to accept what is presented as evidence or not as evidence.
We do that with pretty much all things.

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think that for the born atheist ( for lack of a better word) belief in God is a question of evidence and whether they accept the evidence.
Many simply choose not to.

As long as its clear that is a statement of your opinion, how you see things.

You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

For myself, I cannot fathom how someone can "choose" to believe, or disbelieve.

Belief is not something I can turn on and off.

All we have are opinions.
Of course we can turn belief on and off, we do it all the time.
In reality belief is all about choice.
We choose to believe that the evidence presented is enough or not enough, we choose to accept what is presented as evidence or not as evidence.
We do that with pretty much all things.

Out of all that about why be moral, and being one's own god, this is all you are going to comment on? Sheesh.

As for what 'we' can or cant do, speaketh thou for thyself. I cant turn on and off what I believe. It has to be real.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think that for the born atheist ( for lack of a better word) belief in God is a question of evidence and whether they accept the evidence.
Many simply choose not to.

As long as its clear that is a statement of your opinion, how you see things.

You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

For myself, I cannot fathom how someone can "choose" to believe, or disbelieve.

Belief is not something I can turn on and off.

All we have are opinions.
Of course we can turn belief on and off, we do it all the time.
In reality belief is all about choice.
We choose to believe that the evidence presented is enough or not enough, we choose to accept what is presented as evidence or not as evidence.
We do that with pretty much all things.

Out of all that about why be moral, and being one's own god, this is all you are going to comment on? Sheesh.

As for what 'we' can or cant do, speaketh thou for thyself. I cant turn on and off what I believe. It has to be real.

I wasn't commenting on "why be moral" at all, that argument has been done to death and the reality of that argument is that without God morals are totally subjective, period.
Belief in God is simply a matter of accepting or not accepting the evidence in the arguments for God's existence.
It really is that simple.

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:I'm curious; when you were an atheist; was atheism as much a part of your life as Christianity is now?

Ken

Like Squbble mentioned - I bounced into agnosticism briefly and then into full fledged militant atheism that was prevalent in the late 1960's through till 1980. The only difference in the modern day atheism of the 2010 to current date era is one of terms and definitions. The philosophy is the same as is the search for evidence and twisting of evidence too. The attitude is the same as well as you have the mild atheist who live and let live and defend religious liberties, the moderate atheist who just go with the flow and cause no ruckus towards people of faith, and then you have the militant types who like to pick fights and debate people of faith, I used to be the militant type.

Like other atheist of either class type, I used to class all religions as being the same, yet, for some reason, Christianity was the one I used to hate the most, for absolutely no good reason other than it simplly posed a question to me: Trust Jesus and he will change your life for the better freely. So I thought irrationally - How dare they call me a sinner and tell me what I can do and not do! The other religions did not challenge me as these were all works based systems and each never claimed I was an amoral reprobate but made it a point that I could still do some good - like save the whales, save the fuzzy caterpillars, save the chimps, mother earth - but save humans - no - they need population control, unless they demanded I be controlled!

Christianity provoked me. Looking back, it was as if my conscience was being prodded to wake up but I kept refusing and a smoldering disdain emerged. I launched into militant atheism as a means to justify my NOT hearing God knocking on my proverbial door simply offering me a simple choice to accept or reject Him. No other system offers that choice. The others are works based as it is all about you doing this to earn favor or goodies or offered blind submission or else as Islam does. The religion of humanism and atheism offers no solace either as one must accept it or face ridicule or ostracization on societal scale. Yes, both are belief systems and hence are religions of self and human (achievement) oriented worship. The modern atheist may not like to hear that, and at one time, I did not either but atheism and its kissing cousin humanism are religions of self actualization without hope, reward, or purpose (truly all is vanity without God).

When Christ Jesus awoke me. I found reason and purpose and joy that no human mind can figure out and it aided me through overcoming trials, toils, and snares in life. I used to think humanism offered the same or the other world's religious systems and attempted to back up my thought with warped evidence. Yes, other systems only can go so far. The difference, they cannot erase emptiness nor help one walk in the light of life.

So again, Kenny:

What do you truly believe in?

Will it last?
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RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

Nobody is born an atheist.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:I think that for the born atheist ( for lack of a better word) belief in God is a question of evidence and whether they accept the evidence.
Many simply choose not to.

As long as its clear that is a statement of your opinion, how you see things.

You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

For myself, I cannot fathom how someone can "choose" to believe, or disbelieve.

Belief is not something I can turn on and off.

All we have are opinions.
Of course we can turn belief on and off, we do it all the time.
In reality belief is all about choice.
We choose to believe that the evidence presented is enough or not enough, we choose to accept what is presented as evidence or not as evidence.
We do that with pretty much all things.

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

Nobody is born an atheist.

How do you conclude this? Do you believe babies whose undevoloped brains that are unable to formulate ideas and conclusions are capable of believing in God?

Ken

RickD wrote:

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

Nobody is born an atheist.

How do you conclude this? Do you believe babies whose undevoloped brains that are unable to formulate ideas and conclusions are capable of believing in God?

Ken

Simply because no new born baby has the capacity to believe God doesn't exist. And yes Kenny, nobody is born a theist either. Again Kenny, simple logic.

RickD wrote:

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

Nobody is born an atheist.

How do you conclude this? Do you believe babies whose undevoloped brains that are unable to formulate ideas and conclusions are capable of believing in God?

Ken

Simply because no new born baby has the capacity to believe God doesn't exist. And yes Kenny, nobody is born a theist either. Again Kenny, simple logic.

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
You cannot, of course, see things thro the eyes of a 'born atheist", nor objectively assess evidence / lack of for something to which you are already committed.

Nobody is born an atheist.

How do you conclude this? Do you believe babies whose undevoloped brains that are unable to formulate ideas and conclusions are capable of believing in God?


Ken

Simply because no new born baby has the capacity to believe God doesn't exist. And yes Kenny, nobody is born a theist either. Again Kenny, simple logic.

Okay; so you don't define Atheism as the default position; you define it as the asserted belief that God or no God's exist. That makes perfect sense why you would hold that position.

Thanx
Ken

RickD wrote:Of course Kenny.

Theist-someone who believes God exists.
Atheist-someone who believes God doesn't exist.

Newborn babies can't be either.

Kenny wrote:

RickD wrote:Of course Kenny.

Theist-someone who believes God exists.
Atheist-someone who believes God doesn't exist.

Newborn babies can't be either.

I guess various people describe the term in various ways. Of course using that definition; a lot of people who are called "Atheist" (myself included) are not. Just because a person is a Theist doesn't mean they worship the God of Abraham; in theory a person could worship anything they choose. I believe in the Bible there were people worshiping a golden calf which is just a big chunk of metal! I would find it foolish for a person to claim something doesn't exist without an explanation of what it is they are claiming the non-existence of. I doubt very many people called atheist would actually fit into that category.

Ken