Evidence for God from Science

Zacchaeus Drop of Lucifer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zsIwUjMtmg

zacchaeus wrote:Mark 10:6

"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

How do OEC explain away this Scripture and others, placing man at the beginning of creation- and not a billion yrs in-between?

Good question.YEC's like to try to use this verse to prove their young earth interpretation but Jesus is dealing with divorce,not creation and Jesus is saying that from the beginning of when he created man and woman,he never intended them to divorce.You can check the greek word for "creation" if you need to. It is taking a verse out of context to try to prove a young earth.

All of you are wrong. Evolution is the best model.

neo-x wrote:All of you are wrong. Evolution is the best model.

How are you neo? I hope you are doing well.I do not reject evolution because of God but based on evolution's own evidence. I have examined the evidence and researched from all sides of the debate and I just do not see enough evidence to accept evolution. Are you sure that it was'nt the crisis in creationism that caused you to accept evolution? And you just got fed up and said I might as well accept evolution?Because I realize there is a crisis but I still cannot accept evolution. I'd reject evolution even if I was an atheist.

Zacchaeus,

Just for you:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mV8wFANocHY

Kur, on gen 2:4...

This Scripture is interesting, I favor the YLT version as of late, which simply renders the literal word as 'birth' I believe. So, this causes me to look it up.

Toledoth derived from yalad (Father), means account, birth, or order of birth in this context. It could mean generations, though that applys to man and his descendants.

Rick said there's no rule regarding day when accompanied by a number... So every scholar is wrong and your right? And every time day (yom) is used it must mean billions of years? If not, why do you get to pick and choose bub? Please prove no rule exists with sources, thanks.

I find it also vaguely funny, when in opposition of the meaning of yom, someone comes along and says you know days weren't really days (24hrs) but long periods of time, in their burden of proof, gymnastics, changing meanings, ignoring plain Scriptures, omitting or bending/stretching/reaching, if losing ground they'll defer their position, that they started, by saying that God nor man was focusing on how long or when He created creation, but that He simply did create creation.

Rick asked what other word could Moses of used other than Yom if days were long periods of time???

1)Yom rab
2)Yamim
3)Qedem
4)Dor
5)Tamid
6)Ad
7)Orek
8)Shanah
9)Netsach

zacchaeus wrote:Rick said there's no rule regarding day when accompanied by a number... So every scholar is wrong and your right? And every time day (yom) is used it must mean billions of years? If not, why do you get to pick and choose bub? Please prove no rule exists with sources, thanks.

Never said that.

I said that yom with a number doesn't always mean a 24 hour day, which you suggested.

zacchaeus wrote:Rick asked what other word could Moses of used other than Yom if days were long periods of time???

1)Yom rab
2)Yamim
3)Qedem
4)Dor
5)Tamid
6)Ad
7)Orek
8)Shanah
9)Netsach

Zacchaeus,

That's not what I said. I said long, finite periods of time. How can you expect people to take you seriously if you misrepresent what people say?

If you want an honest dialogue, you need to pay attention to what people actually say. When you quote someone, you need to quote what they actually say.

If you don't understand something, simply ask for clarification.

This seems more and more like you don't want to take part in a discussion. You seem to just want to preach "your way or no way".

And btw,

None of those words you posted, actually mean "long finite period of time".

If you're going to post info, you need to do a little more research than just taking words off of YEC websites, without actually checking them yourself.

zacchaeus wrote:I find it also vaguely funny, when in opposition of the meaning of yom, someone comes along and says you know days weren't really days (24hrs) but long periods of time, in their burden of proof, gymnastics, changing meanings, ignoring plain Scriptures, omitting or bending/stretching/reaching, if losing ground they'll defer their position, that they started, by saying that God nor man was focusing on how long or when He created creation, but that He simply did create creation.

I find it extremely inconsiderate that you

1) believe your interpretation is equal to scripture itself.

2) believe your interpretation is the "plain reading of scripture", because some YEC said so.

3) don't understand than one literal meaning of yom, is a long, finite period of time. And by saying yom means a long, finite period of time, we aren't changing the meaning of the word.

Let's add a bit of practicality to this discussion for a change.

I wonder about how those here would approach others with their respective positions.
That is, regardless of what you hold here, how would you actually communicate in real life with a typical lay person who might just believes that "Nature" is all there is and evolution got us all here.

How would you explain Christianity or your beliefs re: creation and reasons for holding to such?

RickD wrote:

zacchaeus wrote:
He could of simply said I created the earth long before man, it took billions of years, not days

Betcha don't know what the 'only' word is, in the ancient Hebrew language that 'Moses could've used' to say that a day was billions of years long from start to finish?

Let me know if you need a hint.

Then you chastised me for not quoting you, and I quote, you said, that you said "long, finite periods of time "- where is this above?

You don't want me to use yec websites to research? Want me use OEC? Are the strongs out? Linear Bibles out?

If I don't understand you want me to ask someone who's point of view will already be skewed and bias from their understanding?

I'm not ACB , I've never claimed to be 100% accurate nor would I EVER equate my knowledge in the same capacity nor equal to Scripture! Everything your holding against me is exactly what you and abc-defg are doing! Don't call something out your doing. Maybe you don't understand, so if there's a question you have I'll try and help you the best I can. Your not willing to learn, because oh you use to be there, now you believe other. I'm open, but nothing's convinced me yet. You got p.o. cause you don't like my responses and you tried to shut communication down, putting it on me- that's fine. I believe in the possibility the Lord created everything at once and separated in terms that we can understand brother. I see no reason why a definition of a word wouldn't mean the same to God as it does to us, since language is for us, and to communicate with us for comprehension and understanding.

Acb claimed 6th day 24 hr periods as something new, no- gap and other crap are new, like 19th century new. Before that its my understanding western always believed literal days.

zacchaeus wrote:

RickD wrote:

zacchaeus wrote:
He could of simply said I created the earth long before man, it took billions of years, not days

Betcha don't know what the 'only' word is, in the ancient Hebrew language that 'Moses could've used' to say that a day was billions of years long from start to finish?

Let me know if you need a hint.

Then you chastised me for not quoting you, and I quote, you said, that you said "long, finite periods of time "- where is this above?

You don't want me to use yec websites to research? Want me use OEC? Are the strongs out? Linear Bibles out?

If I don't understand you want me to ask someone who's point of view will already be skewed and bias from their understanding?

I'm not ACB , I've never claimed to be 100% accurate nor would I EVER equate my knowledge in the same capacity nor equal to Scripture! Everything your holding against me is exactly what you and abc-defg are doing! Don't call something out your doing. Maybe you don't understand, so if there's a question you have I'll try and help you the best I can. Your not willing to learn, because oh you use to be there, now you believe other. I'm open, but nothing's convinced me yet. You got p.o. cause you don't like my responses and you tried to shut communication down, putting it on me- that's fine. I believe in the possibility the Lord created everything at once and separated in terms that we can understand brother. I see no reason why a definition of a word wouldn't mean the same to God as it does to us, since language is for us, and to communicate with us for comprehension and understanding.

Acb claimed 6th day 24 hr periods as something new, no- gap and other crap are new, like 19th century new. Before that its my understanding western always believed literal days.

I'm backing myself up with scripture that you are ignoring and that is the difference when we discuss creation like this I do not care what any Christian thinks on the matter including me. I go by the word of God which is why I have been doing that. I can't help if you think I'm being equal with scripture,that is what we are supposed to do. I have done nothing but give you scripture to back up the Gap Theory interpretation,you instead are going by YEC web-sights instead of God's word.What does the bible say should be your goal. You are trusting what man says over what God's word says and yet expecting me to accept it. How about going by scripture? just claiming the earth is 6000 years old because YEC's say so and it is a popular view today does not make it true. Nobody here is attacking you even if people are helping you understand thier perspective it is not attacking you so don't take it that way but it is frustrating when I show you by scripture why the Gap Theory is right and why YEC is wrong and you just ignore it.You are even prefering a translation that lines up more with your view in order to hold to YEC. I check several different translations to make sure I'm right.. It seems that because I back myself up with scripture to defend my understanding it is wrong to do so,or something,when that is what we are supposed to be doing.

I've also explained how AIG slanders Gap Theorists,edits their sermons,rewrites history,speaks lies claiming the Gap Theory was made up to accomodate evolution and millions of years and yet you ignore this too and this is the kind of people you are trusting. I reject YEC but I do not make up lies about YEC. I tell the truth and telling the truth is not deception or slander even if the truth hurts.YEC ministries are telling lies on brothers and sisters in Christ in order to push the YEC interpretation. Being a YEC you will never know Christians started modern day science because they rewrite history or ignore it so that you will focus on their YEC creation science that has not made a dent in the theory of evolution despite everything they have threw at evolution. The Gap Theory would have defeated evolution along time ago had YEC's being teaching the Gap Theory instead.