Atheists: Does anything attract you to Christianity?

[PaulSacramento]

Of course it's no science book... Yet science confirms Scripture!!!

As long as we do NOT read science BACK into scripture.

[Audie]

Any evidence of that?
No one takes the whole "multiverse" thing seriously, since there is ZERO evidence for it.

Maybe you should reconsider that.

As you can tell by my posts, there is no evidence for the multiple universes.
There is evidence that MAY lead to that view, IF the evidence is NOT explained by other means and IF that evidence is what they think it MAYbe.
In short, there is no evidence for multiple universes.
BUT IF the one pieces of evidence we have that MAY be "associated" with what we THINK might be evidence for another universe that MAY have been created by the SAME Big Bang event, it still means that the event itself, the Big Bang, is NOT explained and it still does NOT tell us if the natural laws of THIS universe do NOT apply to any other.

It also would mean that the bible, once again, got there before science.

I can tell from your posts that you are dead set against multiverse, and for the bible.

Geology and biology finally freed themselves from interference from the church, as has astronomy. There is always rearguard action but its not taken seriously outside of those parts of the church.

There is evidence for god but not multiverse? Multiple yardsticks for different applications?

Every religion "got there first". Exp when the vague generalities can be fluffed up with hindisight.

No, you can't tell that from my posts because I said I was totally OK with a multiple universe since it would NOT contradict the bible BUT would actually give validity to what the bible clearly states is a different reality from ours.
As someone that loves science and supports it, I simply do not like science made to say what it simply does NOT say.
And as of right now, there is no evidence for a multiple universe.
Again, IF there was and if we find proof that one exists, all that would do ( biblically speaking) is show that the writers of the bible believed there was another "universe" besides this one MILLENNIUMS before modern science did.

By the way, I am not "for the bible" when it comes to science at all, far from it.
The Bible is not a science book or makes scientific statements as we know them.
I am for science, having a degree in Mechanical Engineering, science is part of my every day life.
I support it 100%.
I just don't happen to support all scientists that make claims without evidence.

Audie slaps herself for failure of due diligence and profiling / stereotyping.

[Audie]

Of course it's no science book... Yet science confirms Scripture!!!

As long as we do NOT read science BACK into scripture.

Is there some other way to do it?

[PaulSacramento]

Of course it's no science book... Yet science confirms Scripture!!!

As long as we do NOT read science BACK into scripture.

Is there some other way to do it?

Yes.
Science was a part of the bible BUT the science of THE TIME, in short what was observable and verifiable AT THE TIME.
Anything that science validates TODAY that was viewed as something observed THEN can then be said as "verified by science".
EX:
If science proves the existence of Noah's arc then the science behind building the arc was sound and the existence of the arc is confirmed.

Another more "extreme" example CAN be this:
Some say yhe virgin birth never happened because virgins simply don't give birth.

Science, however, has proven that to be false as we right now, with the help of science, can have a virgin giving birth.
So, to a certain extent, science has verified that a virgin CAN give birth given extraordinary external conditions ( though science has not verified that the holy spirit did it).

[zacchaeus]

Well that and the fact that a new discovery is only new to the discoverer and then of course to those he exposes it to doesn't mean that its 'new' its just new to us...

Science is somewhat self defeating, yesterday's science is obsolete to tom science... Not really wrong, just different, and limited to the technology of the day.

[Kenny]

Kind of. I think.

If you heard God, let`s say just for a moment, you actually hear the voice of God. He tells you it is God. Would you then think, okay God is real, He is there. Or, would you think you were going mad, hearing voices?

Truth be told, I don't know exactly how I would react. I can tell you how I may hope I'd react, but I've never experienced something like that; the only thing I've experienced were a bunch of men as flawed and imperfect as I am, claiming to speak for God telling me God says this and God says that, and to them I react with skeptcism because the way I see it, if God can talk to them he could talk to me.

Ken

[Storyteller]

Kind of. I think.

If you heard God, let`s say just for a moment, you actually hear the voice of God. He tells you it is God. Would you then think, okay God is real, He is there. Or, would you think you were going mad, hearing voices?

Truth be told, I don't know exactly how I would react. I can tell you how I may hope I'd react, but I've never experienced something like that; the only thing I've experienced were a bunch of men as flawed and imperfect as I am, claiming to speak for God telling me God says this and God says that, and to them I react with skeptcism because the way I see it, if God can talk to them he could talk to me.

Ken

I get that

So tell me how you hope you would react.

[Kenny]

Ken...

do you actually want to believe in God?

My view is a bit closer to Audie's view on the issue where as I don't believe I choose what I believe. For me belief happens after reason and logic demands it; not before. While true; a person can choose to listen evidence that supports his agenda and he can choose to ignore evidence that may refute it, but he is still going with the evidence he receives even though he has control over what he receives. Hope that makes sense.

Ken

No Ken, you are misunderstanding what choosing to believe means.
Either you choose what to believe or don't believe in ( based on evidence, reasoning, personal experience, etc) or you are saying that you have NO CHOICE in what to believe or don't.
So which is it?

If Bill Gates (the richest man on Earth) offered to give you a billion dollars if you could choose to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do it? I can't; I may be able to pretend I have convinced myself in order to get the money, but deep down I would know I was lying. If I were able to choose what I beleive, I would be able to do this

Ken

[Kenny]

Kind of. I think.

If you heard God, let`s say just for a moment, you actually hear the voice of God. He tells you it is God. Would you then think, okay God is real, He is there. Or, would you think you were going mad, hearing voices?

Truth be told, I don't know exactly how I would react. I can tell you how I may hope I'd react, but I've never experienced something like that; the only thing I've experienced were a bunch of men as flawed and imperfect as I am, claiming to speak for God telling me God says this and God says that, and to them I react with skeptcism because the way I see it, if God can talk to them he could talk to me.

Ken

I get that

So tell me how you hope you would react.

At first I would probably assume I was just hearing things, but eventually after talking back and forth, I would probably be convinced what I was hearing was real

Ken

[PaulSacramento]

Ken...

do you actually want to believe in God?

My view is a bit closer to Audie's view on the issue where as I don't believe I choose what I believe. For me belief happens after reason and logic demands it; not before. While true; a person can choose to listen evidence that supports his agenda and he can choose to ignore evidence that may refute it, but he is still going with the evidence he receives even though he has control over what he receives. Hope that makes sense.

Ken

No Ken, you are misunderstanding what choosing to believe means.
Either you choose what to believe or don't believe in ( based on evidence, reasoning, personal experience, etc) or you are saying that you have NO CHOICE in what to believe or don't.
So which is it?

If Bill Gates (the richest man on Earth) offered to give you a billion dollars if you could choose to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do it? I can't; I may be able to pretend I have convinced myself in order to get the money, but deep down I would know I was lying. If I were able to choose what I beleive, I would be able to do this

Ken

That is not what I asked you Ken.

[Storyteller]

Ken...

do you actually want to believe in God?

My view is a bit closer to Audie's view on the issue where as I don't believe I choose what I believe. For me belief happens after reason and logic demands it; not before. While true; a person can choose to listen evidence that supports his agenda and he can choose to ignore evidence that may refute it, but he is still going with the evidence he receives even though he has control over what he receives. Hope that makes sense.

Ken

No Ken, you are misunderstanding what choosing to believe means.
Either you choose what to believe or don't believe in ( based on evidence, reasoning, personal experience, etc) or you are saying that you have NO CHOICE in what to believe or don't.
So which is it?

If Bill Gates (the richest man on Earth) offered to give you a billion dollars if you could choose to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do it? I can't; I may be able to pretend I have convinced myself in order to get the money, but deep down I would know I was lying. If I were able to choose what I beleive, I would be able to do this

Ken

I can fly.

In a plane, gimme the cash

Seriously, its impossible to fly. No one has.
But it is possible to believe in God. People do.

Just an idea, act like you believe in God, see what happens. Unlike trying to fly, it wont kill you.

[PaulSacramento]

Kind of. I think.

If you heard God, let`s say just for a moment, you actually hear the voice of God. He tells you it is God. Would you then think, okay God is real, He is there. Or, would you think you were going mad, hearing voices?

Truth be told, I don't know exactly how I would react. I can tell you how I may hope I'd react, but I've never experienced something like that; the only thing I've experienced were a bunch of men as flawed and imperfect as I am, claiming to speak for God telling me God says this and God says that, and to them I react with skeptcism because the way I see it, if God can talk to them he could talk to me.

Ken

I get that

So tell me how you hope you would react.

At first I would probably assume I was just hearing things, but eventually after talking back and forth, I would probably be convinced what I was hearing was real

Ken

You do realize that, even though that would be proof to you, it would not even be evidence for another, right?

[Dazedandconfused]

Ken wrote:

If Bill Gates (the richest man on Earth) offered to give you a billion dollars if you could choose to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do it? I can't; I may be able to pretend I have convinced myself in order to get the money, but deep down I would know I was lying. If I were able to choose what I beleive, I would be able to do this

Hi Ken,

They are talking about choosing to believe that God exists, or choosing to believe He doesn't. They are asking if after looking at everything, all that you know exists, if you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Atheists believe God doesn't exist. Christians believe God exists. Both choose to believe what they believe.

[Storyteller]

Ken wrote:

If Bill Gates (the richest man on Earth) offered to give you a billion dollars if you could choose to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do it? I can't; I may be able to pretend I have convinced myself in order to get the money, but deep down I would know I was lying. If I were able to choose what I beleive, I would be able to do this

Hi Ken,

They are talking about choosing to believe that God exists, or choosing to believe He doesn't. They are asking if after looking at everything, all that you know exists, if you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Atheists believe God doesn't exist. Christians believe God exists. Both choose to believe what they believe.

Nu-uh.
I'm talking about belief in anything.

[Dazedandconfused]

Ken wrote:

If Bill Gates (the richest man on Earth) offered to give you a billion dollars if you could choose to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do it? I can't; I may be able to pretend I have convinced myself in order to get the money, but deep down I would know I was lying. If I were able to choose what I beleive, I would be able to do this

Hi Ken,

They are talking about choosing to believe that God exists, or choosing to believe He doesn't. They are asking if after looking at everything, all that you know exists, if you choose to believe God doesn't exist.

Atheists believe God doesn't exist. Christians believe God exists. Both choose to believe what they believe.

Nu-uh.
I'm talking about belief in anything.

Hi Storyteller,

I got the impression that this tread was about Christianity, and belief in God. And from what PaulSacramento posted here:

No Ken, you are misunderstanding what choosing to believe means.
Either you choose what to believe or don't believe in ( based on evidence, reasoning, personal experience, etc) or you are saying that you have NO CHOICE in what to believe or don't.
So which is it?

I assumed the conversation was about whether someone chooses to believe in God, or chooses to believe God doesn't exist.

But yes,

The idea that we choose to believe in anything, is the same idea. Do we choose to believe whatever we believe?

I'd say of course we do. But that's not the same as what Ken was saying about choosing to believe something(like flying), then being able to do it just because we choose to believe it.

So Ken,

Whatever you believe, do you choose to believe it?