So my question still stands. Are you promoting that we don't have to obey any of the commandments?
Not talking on anyone's behalf, but yes I would go all out even to say that we don't have to obey the commandments of the law. I believe the N.T is sufficient enough. It is a hard ground to defend but what I say I say because I do not think we can just choose what we follow from the law and what we leave because it is inconvenient for us.
we don't have to
That is the problematic part because it assumes, and ties something to faith. And I would ask, on what account do we "have to"? What if I do not.
Here's a question for you, When you stand before God, how will you like to be presented, would you want to justified by grace or by keeping the commandments?
you can not have both. They are exact anti-thesis of each other.
To casually follow the law as you gentlemen are doing, with all your heart, I use the word casually because you admit yourself you cannot obey all of it, but here we differ, to follow the Torah is one thing, to teach that it is the only way to have "real faith" is something else entirely. I am not against fellow brothers, like you who want to follow the Torah, but it saddens me when you imply that not following the law is somehow non-scriptural or not right.
Either the law applies as a whole or it doesn't, there is no middle ground in there. and if you have found one, it is because you are under grace. But that grace is not impacted when you choose to follow some laws and not the other. In fact it is grace alone which gives you this freedom. The law points to Christ. Christ does not point to the law. The law was placed to loosely imitate what Christ would do, not the other way around.
Stringing verses from all over the scriptures does not prove much. Paul clearly said many times how the law was a covenant which was "done away with". A law written on stone. We were given a new covenant, with the new laws.
It was said to you, an eye for eye, a tooth for a tooth, love your friend, hate your neighbor. punish and execute the sinner. Its all there. You can not sugar coat that. The law is not holy because its way of doing things is holy. It is holy because it represented divine justice. But with Christ, he fulfilled it and changed the way for justification forever.
Now you will say, we don't follow Torah to be justified? Then what exactly are you following it for? what?
Jesus didn't say, go and make disciple as messianic Jews in all the countries and the same goes to catholic, protestant and thousands of other denominations, as well. The focus is on Christ and Christ alone. There is nothing beautiful about the law, it was given by Christ and it must point back to his glory. The law is not the representative of God's will. Only Christ is. If Christ is not at the center of your faith, then the whole point is lost already. If you're worried more about Torah and less about transforming in the spirit then you are wrong and the same goes for those who do not follow the Torah, like me. But that is my point what keeps my faith and your's alive is not Torah but the grace of Christ. If you want to praise Christ with following Torah, do so but do not make it sound like others who are not doing so are lost. Christ holds us in his hands, not the commandment.
There is a reason Christ gave us the Holy spirit to live life, if the Law was as good as you make it sound, why did not Christ just told his followers to strictly keep the law?
And the point here is that your justification in Christ has nothing to do with it. And that your life should be a life in the spirit and remember, those who do not keep the law but walk in the spirit are no more better or worse than you. Following the law adds no more favor or holiness on our lives. All you get is how to "do" certain things bu what has that got to do with how the spirit works in believers? nothing.
Your interpretation of the law has nothing to do with how the law treats you. IF you break one law, you break it all and if you can not keep it you are cursed. That is the only deal the law can legally give you.
But in Christ it means nothing and not even trying to keep the law and then failing to do so perfectly, does not bring you under any curse or punishment. If you, who do not keep it perfectly are not lost while you actually tried to follow the law but by not keeping it in full, broke the law, is because your actions were not accounted as sin, as you are in Christ and the law has no power on you; Now tell me, how can you say to others that by not following the law they are not having real faith when you yourself can not keep it all as well.
Do you keep all the commandments, do you try to keep all of them or do you wish you could keep all of them, is that what counts, an intent to follow the commandments? what exactly do you achieve in having the intent to follow all but not the capacity to physically follow all of them. Even if you say, that you only follow the commandments that matter today, even then do you perfectly keep those you wish to follow or you think they apply to you today, with perfection? No? then what makes following the law any better?
Christ gave us commands, there is nothing wrong in following them and we should but because it was given to us, the new covenant, not the old one. And if any Jew comes to Christ he is also a member of the new covenant, an eternal one. In which no one gets to be a Jew or gentile, we are all grafted in Christ, the true vine.
