Evidence for God from Science

In the bible it talks about unbelievers going to hell, but according to y'all it should say the unconverted unbelievers are going to hell. According to y'all some unbelievers are going to heaven but the bible says they are going to hell.

jpbg33 wrote:In the bible it talks about unbelievers going to hell, but according to y'all it should say the unconverted unbelievers are going to hell. According to y'all some unbelievers are going to heaven but the bible says they are going to hell.

In the immortal words of Jac3510, that's "shear" stupidity!

You left out that we all use G-d's name in vain , that is, say the 'G' word when stubbing our toes. I've since decided I don't want to go to hell over that one, so have been a lot more careful. Thanks jpbg33.

jpbg33 wrote:In the bible it talks about unbelievers going to hell, but according to y'all it should say the unconverted unbelievers are going to hell. According to y'all some unbelievers are going to heaven but the bible says they are going to hell.

How do you get - from our comments - that we believe that some unbelievers are going to heaven?

And about you, like Paul, could become a "cast away"? I'm thinking that That is a figure of speech. Where is the passage that you're referring to. I DO recall that -- but don't know where it's found.

And 'unconverted unbelievers' -- either a person is born-again or they aren't. You're using a double-negative.

crochet1949 here it is.

1Co_9:27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

RickD
In the immortal words of Jac3510, that's "shear" stupidity!

That is what I call it to stupidity you either believe or you do not.

jpbg33 wrote:crochet1949 here it is.

1Co_9:27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

RickD
In the immortal words of Jac3510, that's "shear" stupidity!

That is what I call it to stupidity you either believe or you do not.

1 Corinthians 9:27
but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


This verse does not say anything about losing salvation. Paul is talking about being disqualified for rewards.

This is where you need to read what it actually says, not read your theology into it.

Actually people need to stop going out and retranslating the bible to fit there religion.

He is talking about him going to hell not just losing his reward. There will be people in heaven that do not have any reward they are not called castaway's. He was saying that if he stopped believing that he would go to hell as well even after he had preach salvation to everyone.

Here is another go one this one says if you believed in he past it doesn't matter you have to keep believing.

It says that those that believed in the past and stopped believing later believed in vain. Right here Paul said you have to keep believing to keep being saved.

1Co 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 
1Co 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 

Jpbg: I do not know the future so it is possible that in the future I could backslide. I am not God so I could fall short, but I do not intend to like the bible says I have this blessed hope.

Well, at least jpbg admits that he might "backslide" - rather, end up going to hell. You should be EXTREMELY concerned and fearful that you could backslide, based upon what you believe. So, instead of the hope in God who saves to complete His salvation - as the Apostle Paul asserted (and as jpbg ignores), his ultimate hope for eternal life is in his puny, sinful, human will to not backslide. Paul said God is both the Beginner and Completer of our salvation, and that it is He that authors it. I ask you again - does God save, while obviously fully knowing a person's future heart and mind that will nonetheless end in backsliding? Why? Does God choose who He will save unwisely, and for only a TEMPORARY guarantee? You need to address and contemplate Phillipians 1:6 - because you apparently do not believe it.

Also note that those, in Scripture, who jpbg considers to have lost their salvation, while initially amongst believers (like Judas and the crowds) are never described as being SAVED. He needs to understand what it truly means to be saved, to begin with.

Philip I guess you skipped my last post because you still do not see that Paul didn't believe osas either.

It says that those that believed in the past and stopped believing later believed in vain. Right here Paul said you have to keep believing to keep being saved.

1Co 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 
1Co 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 

jpbg33 wrote:Actually people need to stop going out and retranslating the bible to fit there religion.

He is talking about him going to hell not just losing his reward. There will be people in heaven that do not have any reward they are not called castaway's. He was saying that if he stopped believing that he would go to hell as well even after he had preach salvation to everyone.

So,

Show me how the word adokimos translated castaway, means loses salvation.

adokimos

From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384 unapproved, that is rejected; by implication worthless ( literally or morally ): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

RickD even with the way you want to translate it is doesn't say what you are saying it says.

RickD
1 Corinthians 9:27
but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


This verse does not say anything about losing salvation. Paul is talking about being disqualified for rewards.

This is where you need to read what it actually says, not read your theology into it.

See were I underlined it. It is Paul saying that like others that he preached to are disqualified he makes him self a slave so he is not disqualified as well.

He was not saying that the people he had preached to that were disqualified were disqualified form reward but from being saved.

Jpbg: Philip I guess you skipped my last post because you still do not see that Paul didn't believe osas either.

It says that those that believed in the past and stopped believing later believed in vain. Right here Paul said you have to keep believing to keep being saved.

15 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the

Jpbg, CONTEXT and the spiritual identities of those being addressed is key in this Scripture (above) you referenced. What Paul is saying here is, if you read and understand the context, he is detailing the historical FACTS of the Jesus' Resurrection, upon which many of those he is addressing believe. And what he's asserting is, that the Gospel is FACTUAL, as then He immediately begins detailing the many witnesses, including the 500, that saw the Risen Messiah. What he is also asserting is that what is in VAIN, is for ANYONE to believe in the Gospel IF IT NEVER OCCURRED - as if Jesus never truly rose from the dead. He's saying that one can believe something is true all they want to - but that IF it is not FACTUALLY/HISTORICALLY so - then their belief, no matter how sincere, IS in VAIN! This passage has nothing to do with saved people losing their salvation. He is saying of the believers amongst those being addressed, that it is BECAUSE they believe in a Resurrected Jesus Who is ALIVE, was prolifically seen by large numbers of witnesses, and because this is a historical FACT, that they can be assured.

Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

And so, Paul is ALSO addressing those unbelievers in his audience who do NOT believe in the Resurrection.

14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

Let's go further: Again, here Paul once again, in the same sequence, is again addressing believers - people who he references as having faith ("your faith"), and so he's making the rhetorical point to the unbelievers AND those who believe in the Resurrection. He's asserting that the Resurrection and post-Resurrection appearances of Christ are known, historical facts that Christians believe, and that "IF" they believe these things and they are NOT true, THEN (and ONLY then) would their faith be in vain. So he's encouraging the believers while also challenging the unbelievers - while he addresses a MIXED audience of both believers AND unbelievers - that the Resurrection is a widely witnessed matter of FACT! Nothing at all in this sequence has to do with one losing their salvation - the entire point is that the belief is only in vain IF the Resurrection is not historical fact. And oh, how true that would be!

Philip I am not so high and mighty that I can not see were I was using the last of that verse wrong. Yes you are right about the last of the verse being about believing in something that is not true. But that verse dose still talk about people losing there salvation. "if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you". No matter who was in the group of people he was talking to he was addressing the ones in the group that believed and were saved and he told them they were saved if they keep in memory what he preached unto them.

Sense he said if you keep it in memory meant that at that point the ones in the group he was talking to believed and if they keep believing then they were saved.

which mean if they did not keep believing they would no longer be saved.