Evidence for God from Science

I believe that even though all will believe not all will go to heaven. I believe that the difference in the ones that go to heaven and the ones that go to hell is when they believe. I believe that in the bible where it says every knee shaw bow and every tongues shaw confesses it is talking about unbelievers believing ones they face the judgement seat of God but that is to lat and if that is where someone stars believing that is to lat and they will still end up in hell even though at that point they believe.

I believe that the difference in the two is "true believer" is one who believes in Jesus as there savoir and one that is just a "believer" is one who just believes Jesus is real and who he says he is.

jpbg33 wrote:Sense y'all are trying to dodge the question I will put it this way. Where in the bible does it say that unbelievers have everlasting life.

The unsaved will have everlasting life in HELL. Not Heaven.

And there are those who question the everlasting part of HELL. They can't believe that God would be so cruel as to allow people to suffer forever. But -- Hell is not meant for people -- only for satan, false prophet and the beast. The only reason People end up there is because they don't accept God's way of staying Out and being able to get to Heaven.

When non-believers die and face God -- they will know the truth and acknowledge it.

Accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior is to be done Now. During This life time.

And That is why I use the term 'born-again' believer. Because there Are people who believe that there was a Jesus and that He died but nothing more. That would be their knowledge Of -- Not their belief In. And there are those who do Not believe in God at all. So -- without being 'born again' they Will go to everlasting / eternal HELL / Punishment -- No one wants That.

crochet1949 you are still dodging the question unless you are saying that unbelievers and unsaved are the same thing. I do not wont to put words in your mouth so do unbelievers have eternal life as in salvation. If so where in the bible does it say that.

Yes, unbelievers and unsaved are synonymous. I was asking my husband about that -- eternal life -- Everyone will have eternal life -- but it will be either in heaven or hell.

Everyone is born with a physical body -- as in what Gospel of John, chapter three talks about. But Spiritual life only takes place upon accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. "Ye must be born Again". John 3:7.

Those who have been born Spiritually will be in heaven --- those who Haven't been will end up in hell. But -- God has made provision for Everyone to be able to be in Heaven. He Also knows that not everyone will accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. A person placing their faith in the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ as the one and only bridge connecting us to God. Nothing else is needed. Jesus Christ was obedient to the Father and died and came back For us / In our Place. Because the Penalty for our sins is our death. Everyone Will eventually die. Because Before Adam and Eve ate that fruit, they Could Have lived Forever in the Garden. God Wanted to resume fellowshipping with people. So He provided a way to Restore fellowship with us. That is what Salvation Does for us. So - for the spiritually born person -- when they die -- they received a glorified body just like Jesus received after His bodily resurrection. Other wise a non-spiritually born person Won't. They will be in the same torment that Satan will be in. Satan has no way to avoid it. We Do.

Philip I do not see that it is Paul saying that they can not lose there salvation. After reading the chapter it comes across to me that he is telling them that he believes that they will not turn away from God. That they were strong Christians and would hold out to the end. That was the meaning of the verse. He was not telling them don't worry about falling because God will be with you even if you turn against Him. That was not what that verse was about at all. If you read the chapter it was not about them doing wrong but about them being strong against persecution and being strong in Christ. Not only is he encouraged in them for being strong in the Lord But after he said that he told them that he pray that they would get even stronger so they would be even more able to stand to the end.

Php 1:1  Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: 
Php 1:2  Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 
Thanksgiving and Prayer
Php 1:3  I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 
Php 1:4  Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 
Php 1:5  For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 
Php 1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 
Php 1:7  Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 
Php 1:8  For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 
Php 1:9  And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 
Php 1:10  That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; 
Php 1:11  Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. 

like y'all keep telling me we need to keep thing in context.

RickD Are unbelievers going to heaven. And I am not referring to the verse about every knee shall bow. Believing then is to late and not the same kind of belief.

jpbg33 wrote:RickD Are unbelievers going to heaven. And I am not referring to the verse about every knee shall bow. Believing then is to late and not the same kind of belief.

You haven't defined believer, so I know what you mean by "unbeliever".

Jpbg: After reading the chapter it comes across to me that he is telling them that he believes that they will not turn away from God. That they were strong Christians and would hold out to the end. That was the meaning of the verse.

And so you apparently are still ignoring the WHY/the REASON Paul had this confidence - what does he say, because of WHOM???!!! "HE that began a good work in you" - THAT is why Paul had this confidence, not because of mortal men he had absolutely no way of knowing whether that could be true or not. Once more - does God save someone TEMPORARILY while fully knowing their entire future actions, mind and heart? WHY would He do such? Does God make mistakes? You are reading these passages through a certain belief, but not as it was written. So, please address the issues I've brought up in this paragraph.

He was just saying that he was confident that they were going to make it to the end. That was just the way he worded it. That verse does not say osas.

Philip what y'all are over looking is that in language there are statements that can be taken deferent ways depending on the way you read it, and then there are statements that can only mean one thing. So if you are going to get the true meaning of the verses you have to choose the meaning that go along with the statements that do not have but one meaning. The statements that have only one meaning really are your guide to the true meaning of the statements with multiple meanings. That verse could mean A. That God would run them into the ground getting what he wonted from them whether they wonted to do Gods will or not or B. That he had confidence in the fact that God would continue His work in them to the end because he felt that they were strong Christians that would not give up. I think the second meaning is true because of the rest of the chapter where he said he though this of them. So that leads me to believe he is referring to them being strong Christians that God would work though to the end. Not only this but one meaning statements in the bible support the second meaning.


RickD I believe that one who does not believe in Jesus as there savior is an unbeliever and that is as far as the bible defines them which leads me to believe that is enough. Are people who die as unbelievers going to heaven.

With jpbg's theology, only the strong Christians can hold out to the end and be saved. The rest of us weak, pathetic souls, who aren't strong enough to avoid sin, go straight to hell.

Thank God I don't have faith in jpbg's false god of works and human ability.

My God is strong enough and true enough, that His promises are true, even when I fail! And whosoever believes on Him, has a promise that they have eternal life, and will never perish.

Thank God jpbg's false god is relegated to the same trash heap that all other false gods are.

RickD I did not say any of that at all. You have yet to answer my question if someone dies a unbeliever will they go the heaven. if so where does it say that in the bible.

jpbg33 wrote:RickD I did not say any of that at all. You have yet to answer my question if someone dies a unbeliever will they go the heaven. if so where does it say that in the bible.

jpbg wrote:
RickD I believe that one who does not believe in Jesus as there savior is an unbeliever and that is as far as the bible defines them which leads me to believe that is enough. Are people who die as unbelievers going to heaven.

Ok,

So with your definition of unbeliever, is someone who has trusted Christ for 80 years, then falls on tough times, gets mad at God, and doesn't believe in Him for 5 minutes, then dies in an accident within those 5 minutes, is he an unbeliever?

I hope you can see where this is going. As I have told you multiple times, anyone who has ever trusted Christ for salvation, has eternal life. Period. John 3:16

It makes no difference if you define that person as a believer or unbeliever.

I will give you this you are the only one who has held true to what you are saying but still with the true definition of the word "unbeliever" the person you are talking about would be an unbeliever when they die, to stay true to osas you must say that if he truly does not believe when he dies then that is because he really didn't believe before he seem to stop believing because not all that say they believe really believe.

The bible is clear that no unbeliever who dies on earth will go heaven.

jpbg33 wrote:RickD I did not say any of that at all. You have yet to answer my question if someone dies a unbeliever will they go the heaven. if so where does it say that in the bible.

John 3:16b "that who so ever believes in Him shall Not perish but have eternal life."

Go to Revelation 20:10 ".... And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beat and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

vs. 11 "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it..... vs 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

That is Suggesting that there Are degrees of punishment '"each person was judged according to what he had done."

Believers Had been in Abraham's Bosom Until Jesus Christ went to get them after He died on the cross. They have been with Christ ever since. The Others remained.

Rev. 21 : vs 6 - 8 is a very interesting passage. vs 8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters, and all liars --- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Suggesting that people's Life style of those things listed are Not real believers. And it Also suggests that our Outward Lifestyle / that which is Seen outwardly indicates what is Inside the person.

A person's eyes are the windows of their soul. Does a person Avoid eye contact? Do they seem to have 'cold' eyes. What we Look like Outwardly reflects our Inside/ heart.

A person's Actions speak louder than our Words.

There are people who've spent Years in a church -- maybe their Family church -- everyone Assumes that they are believers -- but they Aren't -- they are such Faithful church members -- but No One has Ever challenged them about their Personal beliefs. They don't want to be offensive to that person. No one Wants to realize that people Really Are Going to end up in hell. And even really good, up-standing pillars of the community -- a deacon -- even a Pastor Has to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior or That person Will end up in hell. Sooooo -- if Anyone is questioning their Personal salvation -- by all means -- Make Sure NOW.