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Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:28 am
by crochet1949
jpbg33 wrote:So RickD do you agree with this point. I know that no unbeliever is going to heaven it says so in the bible.
Kurieuo
Here I say let God be judge and not us. With cases where "former" Christians for whatever reason rebelled against God and became "unbelievers"... it could be such are going through a very dark time, but even unbeknown to themselves they deep inside their heart still harvest a buried belief in Christ that is simply deeply wounded and afflicted. Let God be judge and we simply reach out in love and grace to point people in the right direction
My older daughter went through a Very dark time in her life during these past 5 yrs. She's a believer -- her older son died at home -- victim of the fainting/choking 'game'. He was on life-support over night but at almost noon it was decided to stop and let God decide -- Ben was gone within a couple of minutes. Debs wanted God to raise Ben from the dead. He decided Not to. Been through some Rough times, yes, a divorce was thrust upon her / us / that only Greg wanted. Anyway -- she did NOT loose her faith. She's been in and out of mental health facilities. She's on a mood stabilizer. She's made some Poor choices to be sure.
We Do need to reach out to those who are going through rough times -- Pray for them -- not hollow prayers -- but heart-felt prayer.
Some times we Do tend to be judgemental -- tsk, tsk, they've done WHAT. No Real Christian would do THAT. Maybe we Should be More concerned about their spiritual health. Their Emotional health. Be willing to Listen. Sometimes we don't Like what we're hearing -- but - at least- the person is Talking. Assure the person that God DOES love them -- that He Does forgive them. Because Maybe the person Has been unjustly accused Of. And Maybe they Are the guilty party. Whatever the case -- it's their Spiritual health -- their relationship to God through Jesus Christ that is Most Important.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:40 am
by crochet1949
jpbg33 wrote:So I guess RickD is just going to admit that he is wrong by not answering. So I will step to the next part of the argument without him. By not awnsering that is proof he knows he has been beat, but really this is not suppost to be about who beat who in the debate, but about what is right. I have answered questions without fell because it is not about what I think or what you think but it is about what is right. If a question proves I am wrong then I am man enough to admit to it and move on. I guess everyone is not that way.
Everyone here including RickD he just doesn't wont to admit it, believes that if you die a unbeliever you will end up in hell. Why is this important to know? It is because Jesus said you can believe and then later stop believing. So if you can believe and stop believing then osas can not be true. Jesus did not say that if you believe then stop believing that you really still believe way down deep in your heart you just do not realize it at that time, but He said that there will be some that believe but later on in life because of the temptation stop believing.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
So according to Jesus if you believe then later stop believing later when in temptation then you are no longer a believer.
we know Jesus is talking about believers becoming unbelievers because he said they believe for a while so there was a time maybe short maybe long that they were believers but when fasted with temptation they according to Jesus became unbeliever once again.
Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
the wages of sin is death.
Have you Any idea just how Old your attitude is getting. You seem determined to bring out all the negatives / make Scripture sound Negative.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:43 am
by crochet1949
AreEl wrote:RickD wrote:jpbg33 wrote:You are the only one that hasn't answered yet. must mean you do not have an answer and it wasn't even a hard question. The question is where do unbelievers go when they die.
They go clamming with Jacob's bosom, in Parricide.
This is true. Godly unbeleevers hoove done good things on Earth go to Parricide when their dead. but they only stay in Parricide untill their reincarnated. God is a god of forgivniss and he gives godly unbeleevers a seckind chance. God doesint want to see godly unbeleevers go to Hull.
okay -- could we Please be a Little serious.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:44 am
by RickD
Fruitcakes don't have a very long shelf life around here.
There's only so much mold one can put up with on a fruitcake, before it gets thrown away.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:31 am
by Philip
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
And, so, WHY do they fall away: Because they "HAVE NO ROOT!" This means that the seed cast - that is, the Gospel they've heard - NEVER grows to take root in their heart with FAITH. And notice the contrast - those whom merely "HEAR," in which the Gospel isn't received IN FAITH! Note also it NEVER says such people were EVER saved. Show us apassage that clearly says saved people later became unbelievers! You can't do it because such a definitive passage DOESN'T EXIST!!! And THAT is a huge problem for Jpbg!
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:47 am
by RickD
Philip wrote:Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
And, so, WHY do they fall away: Because they "HAVE NO ROOT!" This means that the seed cast - that is, the Gospel they've heard - NEVER grows to take root in their heart with FAITH. And notice the contrast - those whom merely "HEAR," in which the Gospel isn't received IN FAITH! Note also it NEVER says such people were EVER saved. Show us apassage that clearly says saved people later became unbelievers! You can't do it because such a definitive passage DOESN'T EXIST!!! And THAT is a huge problem for Jpbg!
But the text says for a while they believe.
Sounds like believers who fall away. But, to equate falling away, with losing eternal life, is unwarranted from the text.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:14 pm
by jpbg33
What Jesus was saying is some people well come get saved but later backslide and become unbelievers. We all know that unbelievers when they die go to hell.
The bible tell us to not harden our hearts so it is not Gods that let us down but it is our self's. If we keep our hearts prepared for the seed Jesus has sowed our way it will not be a question of will we make it or if we can lose out but rather we will no matter what make it we just must not let our hearts harden.
It really is not about what we are doing or what we are going to do, but about if our heart is right and if our heart is right then the out side will take care of it self. The bible say out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and Jesus said a good tree can not bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree can not bring forth good fruit.
The fruit is not what makes the tree bad but it is the tree that makes the bad fruit. The same is true with us it is not our works that makes our belief unbelief but it is our unbelief that make us have no works or evil works.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:09 pm
by RickD
Jpbg,
I'm giving you a warning. Please stop misrepresenting other people posting here.
You wrote:
What Jesus was saying is some people well come get saved but later backslide and become unbelievers. We all know that unbelievers when they die go to hell.
For the sake of clarity, I asked you to define "unbeliever". This is your definition of "unbeliever":
I believe that one who does not believe in Jesus as there savior is an unbeliever...
So, going with your definition of unbeliever, anyone who trusted Christ for salvation, and then somewhere in his life did not believe, is an unbeliever.
And since some people posting here believe in osas, which includes the idea that if someone commits a sin once saved, he remains saved, the fact is that by your definition of unbeliever, we don't "all know" that unbelievers go to hell.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:18 pm
by crochet1949
"then somewhere in his life did Not believe....." a believer does not revert back to unbelief -- the person Can't loose salvation Because the Holy Spirit does NOT leave a person. Which is why it can be said " once saved Always saved" because the Holy Spirit does NOT remove Himself from us. It's called being eternally secure in Jesus Christ. It's the 'sealing'' power of the Holy Spirit.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:37 pm
by Philip
"then somewhere in his life did Not believe....." a believer does not revert back to unbelief -- the person Can't loose salvation Because the Holy Spirit does NOT leave a person. Which is why it can be said " once saved Always saved" because the Holy Spirit does NOT remove Himself from us. It's called being eternally secure in Jesus Christ. It's the 'sealing'' power of the Holy Spirit.
Again, Jpbg, WITHOUT HAVING TO READ A CERTAIN MEANING INTO the Scriptures related to this issue, WHERE is a clear, definitive passage that tells you people who initially had some kind of shallow faith and desire to follow Christ, ever confessed him in a desire of faith and commitment that led to salvation? If you can't do that, you are wasting your time with speculation - speculation, by the way, which shows many verses that assert the opposite. WHERE is your unmistakable, clear verse(s) that teach your belief? We're ALL waiting!
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:13 pm
by RickD
Philip wrote:"then somewhere in his life did Not believe....." a believer does not revert back to unbelief -- the person Can't loose salvation Because the Holy Spirit does NOT leave a person. Which is why it can be said " once saved Always saved" because the Holy Spirit does NOT remove Himself from us. It's called being eternally secure in Jesus Christ. It's the 'sealing'' power of the Holy Spirit.
Again, Jpbg, WITHOUT HAVING TO READ A CERTAIN MEANING INTO the Scriptures related to this issue, WHERE is a clear, definitive passage that tells you people who initially had some kind of shallow faith and desire to follow Christ, ever confessed him in a desire of faith and commitment that led to salvation? If you can't do that, you are wasting your time with speculation - speculation, by the way, which shows many verses that assert the opposite. WHERE is your unmistakable, clear verse(s) that teach your belief? We're ALL waiting!
Philip,
The guy can't even form a proper sentence, and you want him to give a bible verse in its proper context?
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:19 pm
by crochet1949
Philip wrote:"then somewhere in his life did Not believe....." a believer does not revert back to unbelief -- the person Can't loose salvation Because the Holy Spirit does NOT leave a person. Which is why it can be said " once saved Always saved" because the Holy Spirit does NOT remove Himself from us. It's called being eternally secure in Jesus Christ. It's the 'sealing'' power of the Holy Spirit.
Again, Jpbg, WITHOUT HAVING TO READ A CERTAIN MEANING INTO the Scriptures related to this issue, WHERE is a clear, definitive passage that tells you people who initially had some kind of shallow faith and desire to follow Christ, ever confessed him in a desire of faith and commitment that led to salvation? If you can't do that, you are wasting your time with speculation - speculation, by the way, which shows many verses that assert the opposite. WHERE is your unmistakable, clear verse(s) that teach your belief? We're ALL waiting!
Philip -- that was from Me (crochet) Not Jpbg.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:22 pm
by crochet1949
RickD wrote:Philip wrote:"then somewhere in his life did Not believe....." a believer does not revert back to unbelief -- the person Can't loose salvation Because the Holy Spirit does NOT leave a person. Which is why it can be said " once saved Always saved" because the Holy Spirit does NOT remove Himself from us. It's called being eternally secure in Jesus Christ. It's the 'sealing'' power of the Holy Spirit.
Again, Jpbg, WITHOUT HAVING TO READ A CERTAIN MEANING INTO the Scriptures related to this issue, WHERE is a clear, definitive passage that tells you people who initially had some kind of shallow faith and desire to follow Christ, ever confessed him in a desire of faith and commitment that led to salvation? If you can't do that, you are wasting your time with speculation - speculation, by the way, which shows many verses that assert the opposite. WHERE is your unmistakable, clear verse(s) that teach your belief? We're ALL waiting!
Philip,
The guy can't even form a proper sentence, and you want him to give a bible verse in its proper context?
The 'guy' -- in This case, is Not a 'guy'. It's a Woman who happens to crochet as a hobby -- that is -- when I'm not on 'here'.
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:33 pm
by RickD
crochet1949 wrote:RickD wrote:Philip wrote:"then somewhere in his life did Not believe....." a believer does not revert back to unbelief -- the person Can't loose salvation Because the Holy Spirit does NOT leave a person. Which is why it can be said " once saved Always saved" because the Holy Spirit does NOT remove Himself from us. It's called being eternally secure in Jesus Christ. It's the 'sealing'' power of the Holy Spirit.
Again, Jpbg, WITHOUT HAVING TO READ A CERTAIN MEANING INTO the Scriptures related to this issue, WHERE is a clear, definitive passage that tells you people who initially had some kind of shallow faith and desire to follow Christ, ever confessed him in a desire of faith and commitment that led to salvation? If you can't do that, you are wasting your time with speculation - speculation, by the way, which shows many verses that assert the opposite. WHERE is your unmistakable, clear verse(s) that teach your belief? We're ALL waiting!
Philip,
The guy can't even form a proper sentence, and you want him to give a bible verse in its proper context?
The 'guy' -- in This case, is Not a 'guy'. It's a Woman who happens to crochet as a hobby -- that is -- when I'm not on 'here'.
Crochet,
I know you posted that(that's why I liked your post). I quoted Philip's post, in which he quoted you, quoting Jpbg.
Other than mixing up loose and lose, your sentence structure is "Grammar Nazi" approved!
Re: Miraculous healings today
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:53 pm
by crochet1949
Philip was addressing 'jp' -- only I don't think he realized it was Me he was commenting about.