Shroud of Turin

[bippy123]

I Had a little time on my hands so I did a search on yahoo search for the keyword "forum shroud of Turin" and there were some forums between 2003 and 2010, and I was shocked at the complete lack of information on these forums and the outrageous posts being made on it. The problem is that the media has made quite an impression on alot of uninformed people aboutthe shroud, to the point that they called it an old piece of cloth with a painted image and painted blood on it.

This is what true shroud researchers are up against lol

[DRDS]

Hello again bippy and everyone, check out this new video link on the Shroud, done at a Jesuit University. Pretty nice presentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWkqEU

[bippy123]

A 2012 presentation about the shroud of Turin given in front of a class of college seniors.
This is one of the better presentations because it focuses on the blood clots and how they are in a pristine and undisturbed state and how it's impossible to have if the body left the shroud by natural means.

It's given by a doctor. You really have to watch this to get a better understanding of not only the blood clots but how the image was formed by a mechanism that had "distance from the cloth" embedded into the shroud .
He also explains in detail why the image couldn't have come about the way it did if the shroud was wrapped around the body. This doctor has been in constant email correspondence with the sturp team, so he's getting the latest info they have on the shroud. You guys will love this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWk ... ata_player

[bippy123]

Hello again bippy and everyone, check out this new video link on the Shroud, done at a Jesuit University. Pretty nice presentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWkqEU

DRDS, dude we must be brothers lol
Are we psychically connected ????
We were thinking the same thing hehe
Great find bro
This guy is giving free presentations so if any church wants one they should contact him.
This presentation blew my mind bro

[DRDS]

Hello again bippy and everyone, check out this new video link on the Shroud, done at a Jesuit University. Pretty nice presentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWkqEU

DRDS, dude we must be brothers lol
Are we psychically connected ????
We were thinking the same thing hehe
Great find bro
This guy is giving free presentations so if any church wants one they should contact him.
This presentation blew my mind bro

•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-â– 
(⌐■_■)

Oh yeah!

[bippy123]

Here is a very nice video presentation of the shroud of turin for newbies or the younger crowd from a Christian girl whose website is called rezproject.com

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E9BFaKKmxYI

If you guys know any teens or newbies I think this video is an excellent way to get them into it, as the video graphics are very entertaining.

Pass it on folks

[jomc20]

What I find interesting is thatso many people want to believe in the most sensational and least scientific (and least likely) explanation for such things. Is there a built-in need in humans to believe in magic because our forefathers' lives were so hard, short and brutal that only a belief in magic made them bearable?

[Swimmy]

Dr Thomas De Wesselow,apparently leading expert on medieval art as a 1 hr video on why the Shroud isn't a medieval hoax


http://www.shroud-enigma.com/BSTS/bsts-uk-homepage.html

[Swimmy]

Apparently a challenge has been made for $ 20,000 to whomever can recreate the shroud.



http://www.shroud-enigma.com/challenge/ ... image.html


This challenge was specifically issued to Richard Dawkins and his team

29th March 2012
Dear Richard Dawkins

It is really not sufficient to dismiss the Shroud, as you do, on the basis of a C14 test from a single and badly selected sample area. Are you really saying that C14 has never made a mistake? Archaeologists frequently go back to retest something when other data conflicts. That has been impossible with the Shroud.

In your Shroud blog you argue, rightly in my view, that it is not enough for Christian apologists to weigh faith heavier than facts. After all, Christianity is based on a historical figure. The Shroud of Turin is a much-

studied tangible object and it is a very significant fact that its unique image - so far - remains unfathomable. But that could be about to change if you, with the weight of your formidable foundation behind you, choose to accept this challenge.

When Professor Hall, Head of the Oxford Radio Carbon Unit announced the C14 result he was asked for his explanation for the Shroud. He said: “Someone just got a bit of linen, faked it up and flogged it”. This sounded a bit glib at the time and now, over twenty years on, it is beginning to sound a little hollow. No one has yet been able to show how it might have been “faked up”.

Accepting this challenge would appear to be consistent with your foundation's mission. Does it not represent a wonderful educational opportunity to investigate what some have suggested could only have been the work of a Leonardo Da Vinci? To make the decision easier for you we will donate the £20,000 to your foundation if you simply accept the challenge and follow it through to some kind of conclusion. The public can make up their own minds about the result.*

The challenge then, if you choose to accept it, is to explain how the Shroud and its image might have come into existence. You will find a list of the most significant image characteristics here. If you cannot pin it down then, in all conscience, you should, at least, give it the appropriate respect as an enigma. If you can explain it then this site’s title becomes a misnomer and you will have solved a great mystery. Everyone would like to see this matter resolved. Could you be the one to do it?

With all good wishes

David Rolfe
Publisher
Shroud-enigma.com

So far. Nothing.

[DRDS]

Dr Thomas De Wesselow,apparently leading expert on medieval art as a 1 hr video on why the Shroud isn't a medieval hoax


http://www.shroud-enigma.com/BSTS/bsts-uk-homepage.html

Interesting, I just got done watching the presentation. Pretty decent presentation, I was mostly intrigued at what the speaker said near the end about doing modern day experiments using real freshly dead corpses and wrapping them in the exact type of material that the shroud was made from and leaving that body wrapped up for thirty six hours or more to see if the body's natural chemicals would adhere to the cloth in such a way that a image would appear.

My question to Bippy or anyone else who might know is, if wrapping freshly dead bodies of people in shrouds, lying them in tombs not just for 36 hours but until their flesh fully decays and then placing their bones in a bone box or ossurary afterwards, shouldn't we already have many shrouds then with many shroud like images of people on them from all the years of people dying and being wrapped in shrouds and placed in tombs until their flesh decays?

Unless the linen quickly decays along with the flesh during the decaying process, archeologists and historians should be able to find other shrouds from that time period and be able to see if any images are left behind. Either way that would be a great experiment to try if it hasn't already been done yet. Does anyone know if such a thing has been done as of yet?

Thanks for the link Swimmy.

[DRDS]

I was going to add, if these experiments are done and somehow they come back positive meaning that the chemicals and vapors coming from a decaying body on this type of linen can indeed produce a highly detailed image as Dr. De Wesselow thinks could happen, when taking the other evidence currently that suggests that the Turin Shroud is the Shroud of Christ, could this mean that Christ did not resurrect and that His body was stolen? But if the body was stolen wouldn't there be traces of that possibly on the Shroud like around the blood spots and so on?

This is kinda making me nervous, but Bippy, you know of anything that would either disprove Dr. De Wesselow's hypothesis or show that according to the physical examination of the Shroud that there isn't any direct evidence on the image of any thieves tampering with the body that would suggest them trying to remove the body from the Shroud that would be a great help. Anyways sorry about my concern, it just got me thinking some nervous thoughts.

[DRDS]

Well let's see, in trying to resolve my own doubts and worries I got to thinking, isn't there already very good evidence suggesting that the image was caused by some kind of radiation or some type of light rather than this so called "naturally" occuring decaying body vapor theory that Dr. De Wesslow is saying?

One person I think of who thinks the Shroud image was caused by radiation is Isabel Piczek. Do you think her evidence or anyone else's evidence that suggests the Shroud being caused by radiation (which would certainly have to be supernatural thus giving good indication that the resurrection did happen) than with what Dr. De Wesslow suggests with "naturally" occuring decaying body chemical vapors?

Not to mention, how about other fabrics? Would (assuming Dr. De Wesslow's idea is true) drapping any sheet over a dead body produce a image with a little time plus these naturally occuring chemical vapors that Dr. De Wesslow thinks dead bodies release when the decaying process starts? Is there something overly special about the material of this kind of linen that would make such vapors (if indeed this actually happens) more possible?

Either way I hope they can hurry up and do this experiment so we can put this issue aside.
And plus, overall even if Dr. De Wesslow's experiment is proven true, even that I guess doesn't suggest the resurrection did not happen.

Because after all, what about the post resurrection appearances that were witnessed and recorded by the apostles?
But either way I hope they will do this experiment soon to help further things along. I'm still nervous about it but not as much I guess.

[Philip]

Let's, just for a moment, put the scientific evidence aside. If natural processes could produce such a shroud, and as over time, countless corpses have been prepared with the very same procedures and process as was the body of Jesus, then where are all the other comparable shrouds? Why aren't at least quite a few more such examples to be found. And how is it that this ancient fabric just happened to long be in the possession of the Church, that has long considered it the actual burial garments of Jesus - and that did so centuries before the discovery of its negative image or all of the extraordinary evidences that modern science has found out about it? Did the Church just get this unfathomably lucky, and just happened to believe, and for many centuries, that it possessed the actual burial garments of Christ, which also just happened to turn out to be the most extraordinary, scientifically inexplicable and most-studied artifact of all time? I don't think so!

[jomc20]

Just because something has not yet been explained by science does not mean there is not a scientific explanation. It makes sense to look for a logical and scientific explanation, ie the most likely, first, rather than the least likely (a supernatural explanation)

[bippy123]

Apparently a challenge has been made for $ 20,000 to whomever can recreate the shroud.



http://www.shroud-enigma.com/challenge/ ... image.html


This challenge was specifically issued to Richard Dawkins and his team

29th March 2012
Dear Richard Dawkins

It is really not sufficient to dismiss the Shroud, as you do, on the basis of a C14 test from a single and badly selected sample area. Are you really saying that C14 has never made a mistake? Archaeologists frequently go back to retest something when other data conflicts. That has been impossible with the Shroud.

In your Shroud blog you argue, rightly in my view, that it is not enough for Christian apologists to weigh faith heavier than facts. After all, Christianity is based on a historical figure. The Shroud of Turin is a much-

studied tangible object and it is a very significant fact that its unique image - so far - remains unfathomable. But that could be about to change if you, with the weight of your formidable foundation behind you, choose to accept this challenge.

When Professor Hall, Head of the Oxford Radio Carbon Unit announced the C14 result he was asked for his explanation for the Shroud. He said: “Someone just got a bit of linen, faked it up and flogged it”. This sounded a bit glib at the time and now, over twenty years on, it is beginning to sound a little hollow. No one has yet been able to show how it might have been “faked up”.

Accepting this challenge would appear to be consistent with your foundation's mission. Does it not represent a wonderful educational opportunity to investigate what some have suggested could only have been the work of a Leonardo Da Vinci? To make the decision easier for you we will donate the £20,000 to your foundation if you simply accept the challenge and follow it through to some kind of conclusion. The public can make up their own minds about the result.*

The challenge then, if you choose to accept it, is to explain how the Shroud and its image might have come into existence. You will find a list of the most significant image characteristics here. If you cannot pin it down then, in all conscience, you should, at least, give it the appropriate respect as an enigma. If you can explain it then this site’s title becomes a misnomer and you will have solved a great mystery. Everyone would like to see this matter resolved. Could you be the one to do it?

With all good wishes

David Rolfe
Publisher
Shroud-enigma.com

So far. Nothing.

Excellent link as usual Swimmy, and yes the challenge was originally made specifically to Dawkins , but as usual total silence on his part, but then again what do you expect from someone who is still clinging to the now invalidated 1988 c14 tests. Dawkins worldview would come crumbling down if he dared to follow the evidence where it naturally leads