Evidence for God from Science

Jac3510 wrote:

jenna wrote:If He did not have a form then what are our bodies modeled after?

Bipedalism. And that makes sense. It is the most condusive to our rational nature. Let's us use our hands, which is a really big deal, given our rational nature. Let's us see better (binocular vision since the eyes are on the front of our heads). Lots of benefits.

so the apes were given bipedalism too, but we were not modeled after them, were we?

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

jenna wrote:We are also made in the image of God. just as each animal is made after their own kind, we are made after the God kind! we were created to look like Him, so therefore He looks like we do. If He did not have a form then what are our bodies modeled after?

I think you could answer my own thoughts in what ways we possess the image of God. If you want to make it strictly an affair of form, physical form, then the end result of such logic means that ALL hominids are made in God's image.

Yet, Scripture says mankind alone was made in God's image, for that reason we are all considered equally valuable and must not go about killing each other. Therefore, it must be something other than physical form.

right, of course it was about something BESIDES just physical form. we are the only creatures God made to be able to reason and think for ourselves, we are the only ones who have the ability to grow, adapt, and become more than just an animal acting on instinct. We are the only creation able to receive salvation, and the only ones who know right from wrong. But the forms we were given, as far as body shape, were given strictly to us humans. He gave us His image.

Yes, what matters then with the image of God is something BESIDES physical form. Many of the more invisible qualities you mention (reason and intelligence, transcendence, righteousness and morality) I'd agree with. They matter so much that chimps do not possess the image of God, but humans do. Therefore, there is no direct correlation between physical form and God's image. A new argument must be presented if you wish to argue such.

That said, understand that I believe the physical is often built around upon invisible spiritual truths. Being God's image bearers, what could "hands" resemble? God worked and created everything that exists that was created. We too, work with our hands and create. Our "hands" (works) are much smaller than His, and yet they're our own.

Consider the song by Jewel, "My hands are small I know, but there not yours they are my own." Are these lyrics really all about hands? No, there is a deeper hidden meaning intended which the lyrics are structured around.

jenna wrote:so the apes were given bipedalism too, but we were not modeled after them, were we?

Of course not. Having a common model doesn't mean either was modeled on the other. But even then, there aren't any apes that are primarily bipedal anyway, certainly not in the sense that modern human beings are.

jenna, I've answered every single one of your questions multiple times. Can you address my two arguments, one with reference to John's statement that God is (not has) spirit and Jesus' words that spirits don't have hands and feet, etc.; as well as the argument that since God created everything, He can't have a material body because that we mean that matter, space, and time already existed to accomodate any material body He would have?

Jac3510 wrote:

jenna wrote:so the apes were given bipedalism too, but we were not modeled after them, were we?

Of course not. Having a common model doesn't mean either was modeled on the other. But even then, there aren't any apes that are primarily bipedal anyway, certainly not in the sense that modern human beings are.

jenna, I've answered every single one of your questions multiple times. Can you address my two arguments, one with reference to John's statement that God is (not has) spirit and Jesus' words that spirits don't have hands and feet, etc.; as well as the argument that since God created everything, He can't have a material body because that we mean that matter, space, and time already existed to accomodate any material body He would have?

God is spirit, yes, but just because something is spirit does not mean it cannot have a shape or form or body. a body does not have to be flesh, it can be spirit and still be a body. I do not remember what words Christ gave that said spirits dont have hands or feet, please where did He say that?

Here's some metaphysical questions for you Jenna. What is it that makes a hand a hand? Is it merely shape, function, biology, or something other?

Kurieuo wrote:Here's some metaphysical questions for you Jenna. What is it that makes a hand a hand? Is it merely shape, function, biology, or something other?

shape is what makes a hand a hand. functions and biology are not necessary in alot of instances.

Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

Do you mean to tell me that a Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter, died for my sins on a cross?

Then this Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter rose on the third day? And a Roman spear punctured this Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter?

RickD wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

Do you mean to tell me that a Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter, died for my sins on a cross?

Then this Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter rose on the third day? And a Roman spear punctured this Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter?

oh for heaven's sake. are we going to go through this again? God is not just some amorphous blob with no form or shape. He has a heart and a brain and eyes to see. Does an immaterial form have these things? How can an immaterial form feel anger, compassion, love and jealousy?

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

I'd encourage you to re-read my post above where I gave my response to your specific passage.

Kurieuo wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

I'd encourage you to re-read my post above where I gave my response to your specific passage.

i read your post. I was not responding to that one, I was answering the question you asked me above. the one about the metaphysical hand?

There are things that are implicit and those that are explicit.
In writing to the people of their time, the biblical writers wrote in a way that THOSE PEOPLE would understand.
The imagery of God on a throne for example, portrays God as King of All but does got have to have a body or sit on a throne?
Of course not, why would God limit Himself?
God can show Himself to whom He chooses in any way He chooses. that doesn't mean that He is "stuck" that way.
That is limiting God.
Scripture is clear that God is Spirit and that Spirit is immaterial, but scripture is also clear that God can appear in a human form and why not? He is, after all, God and he can do anything He chooses to.

jenna wrote:

RickD wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

Do you mean to tell me that a Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter, died for my sins on a cross?

Then this Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter rose on the third day? And a Roman spear punctured this Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter?

oh for heaven's sake. are we going to go through this again? God is not just some amorphous blob with no form or shape. He has a heart and a brain and eyes to see. Does an immaterial form have these things? How can an immaterial form feel anger, compassion, love and jealousy?

And Jesus Christ is a literal rock. Show me from scripture where it says that Jesus is not a literal rock.

Jenna,

You need to rethink this. Seriously.

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Did the Lord not cover Moses with His hand? What kind of hand was it...

according to you it was just symbolism. but that was not what you asked me. But yes, it was a literal hand. so that moses would not see His (literal) face and die

I'd encourage you to re-read my post above where I gave my response to your specific passage.

i read your post. I was not responding to that one, I was answering the question you asked me above. the one about the metaphysical hand?

Well then, I'm puzzled why you believe I said it was just symbolism in that instance.

What do you make of the dual entities, the "glory" of the Lord passing by, all the while the Lord places Moses and stands beside him to shelter against such glory until it turned away? It seems to me, that the passage involving the "glory" of the Lord passing by, is more troubling to your idea that God is somehow simply human in form.