jpbg33 wrote:I don't care if you are a woman or not if you have a good answer I will take it, but you are not answering my question.
Weather we agree with someone or not we should be treating each other with respect and I have respectfully answer your question but you have yet to answer mine. You may not like the answer I gave you but that was the same answer your osas friends gave me when asking about thing that happened before Jesus died on the cross. didn't see anyone throwing that answer under the but then.
Paul talks about Jews thinking they were better then others more the one's, and that was what he was referring to there
this is a question that I have.
if osas were true then why is the bible full of ....
An example
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
If osas were true then this verse would not be in the bible.
if he can take pot shot at me I should be able to take pot shot at him to.
I aplogise for my tone jpbg.
I could have dealt with that better.
These issues of OSAS, eternal security, how does a person really know they saved, the state of a believers salvation all center around Grace.
That is the Gospel of Jesus, the Good News, The Living Word.....
By the Grace of God we enter into His kingdom as sons and daughters because of the the sacrafice made by Jesus on the cross.
Many believe we are saved by Grace but we are not kept by Grace.
The true gospel of grace is hard to get out head around, it is mispresented in the pulpits, by pastors and preachers and there is no end of literature that distorts this message.
When christians say it is by grace alone we are saved, and not by anything we do, it gives an impression like that is a licence to sin. That is not the case.
When scripture is looked at under the cloak of works then there can be an unbalanced interpretation. Verses seem conflicting. How can scripture speak of sin in one verse then in another state that works are like filthy rags and we are only saved through grace. When you truly understand Grace when scripture is interpreted through Jesus' finished work on the cross, the true gospel of grace aligns scripture and the words of wisdom regarding sin.
Christians who have taken on the role of 'fruit inspectors' look around and try to judge who is truly saved under a performance based understanding and faith. Who's saved, who was never saved, who is in danger of becoming unsaved'
It is looking at works to determine salvation. Grace is thrown in there by the admission that it is by grace that we are saved but then it is up to us to maintain it.
Grace saves us but does not maintain us.
This is not the Gospel.
It is a false gospel and it has far reaching implications for the body of Christ.
The Grace shown to us through the love of Our Father secures us as His sons and daughters.
All that is required on our part is Faith.
We do not do good works to save us, or maintain salvation, we do so out of love. Good works reach far further than what can be seen by us. We look at who's being good as opposed to bad, by our understanding. Is someone drinking, smoking, living out of wedlock, having an affair, addicted to porn or whatever. We see that as bad fruit. The 'fruit inspectors' will have a lot to say about the salvation of such people. Performance is poor.
Fruit is shown in many ways, by the most struggling christian.
Love, compassion, understanding, patience and empathy. These things are not so easily picked upon by the fruit inspectors. They are conditions of the heart not of the flesh.
We cannot always see the good work God is doing within a person.
They may be living with a partner, occassionally drinking too much, perhaps prone to swearing, or they could be a dirty bum living on the streets in poverty, addiction and despair. The exact kind of people that have bad fruit clearly on show but also be extremely kind, and generous. Have incredible compassion and empathy for others. To an extent that the 'fruit inspectors' have truly never grasped.
Personally I view the 'fruit inspectors' like the Pharisee in the story with the tax collector. Whilst they are so busy inspecting other Christians to gauge their salvation they are placing themselves outside of Gods favour by having this desire to do so to begin with. In Christ' day the Pharisees despised Jesus for offering the kingdom to poor, oppressed, weak sinners whom He made equal to them.
I really like the parable of the workers in the vineyard.
Some worked hard all day, then others only worked for an hour but all got paid the same. The ones who had been hard at it, thought it was unfair. How could the manager pay them the same as others who had worked only one hour. They were the hard workers, they got the job done, sweated the most.
But the manager had offered them one denarius which was very generous and they agreed before starting the work. It wasn't unfair, they got paid exactly what was promised to them.
The payment is the Kingdom of heaven.
Some of us will toil longer, work harder, be better workers than others but we will all get the same reward as others who appear to do very little.
God's Grace will fall upon every worker in the vineyard.
Whether we like it or think it fair, or even if we believe it takes away from most hardworking of us.
That is the extent of His Grace and I think it's bloody awesome!!
On a side note, the revelation verse is not speaking about salvation.
It is referring to a time after the second coming of Christ after the tribulation.
The setting up of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth when Christians have already been well established by refusing the mark of the beast and enduring to the end of the tribulation. Those on earth who have rejected Christ and have worshipped beast will have that fate.
. You're starting to convince me.