Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:01 am**

I can attest to your problems. Sin is a plague of the Devil. It destroys everything you hold dear! When those thoughts come upon you try combatting them. Speak out against them if not loudly, softly! Call on the name above all names. I find going through that process it puts my mind at Peace! Get a hobby or something that makes your mind think so you concentrate on other things. It is hard but you can only combat it with God and Self Discipline! That website that Canuckster shared is an amazing website with others that have gone through the same problem. Take care

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:40 am**

Atticus Finch wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:

Turgonian wrote:

FFC wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I greatly appreciate the thoughts and advice.

I have an interesting story to share which will demonstrate the addiction (as I believe it to be) and how it can deter my mind from meaningful things.

I didn't attend the graduation ceremony at my high school. Instead I went on a road trip with a friend to a few different states. We camped there and were away from all society and women for a week or so. It was fantastic. There was no lust in my mind for a few reasons:

1) We were camping and survival does not entail thoughts about women.
2) I was outdoors. I felt a real purpose to life. I was reading the Bible.
3) There were no girls around, no computers, and no televisions.
4) My friend also suffers from a similar problem and we had agreed not to talk sexually about women but instead focus on almost anything else.

At one point we went hiking through a family-oriented trail in Delaware. We went the long route which was still only a few miles (a family place remember) and we saw waterfalls and all of that great stuff. This was the purpose I had felt, the complete meaning to a life which is not found within a society based around Walmart ( ) and the like. Anyway, throughout this hike there was a girl there who appeared a year younger than myself (I am eighteen). Since she was the first attractive girl I had seen in a few days my mind suddenly dropped all elements of beauty, purpose, and life and quickly focused onto sex. I had to actually explain to my friend that we needed to either leave or run ahead so I could forget about her.

I explained to him as I have done here that it feels like a dark plague reaching throughout my mind and destroying all good thoughts and replacing them with sexual ones. That night as I slept in our tent I could still hardly keep my mind from her, this even as a bear walked around our camp site...

I know that this is very candid and I'm sorry if it has offended anyone, I just feel that complete honesty is the only way in which I can defeat this problem.

Lots of people (namely atheists and those of a religion but weak therein) will say that thoughts do not matter. They will say that pornography, while of course being insulting to the participants in it, is of no harm or danger to the individual. I can recognize the error of this from what I've learnt of Christ's teachings and those elsewhere in the Bible. Thoughts do matter and they do corrupt the mind. They are as dangerous as actions and they most certainly lead towards actions rather than remains as thoughts.

Atticus, you are far, far wiser than you give yourself credit for. You know what they say, half the battle is in the recognition and you've already accomplished that. Canuckster, FFC, and other members have given you some excellent advice. What I'd like to bring your attention to is the fact that you're still a teenager and that there's a real, physical, hormonal aspect that's still raging within you and that I think you're neglecting to acknowledge. That's not say it should be used as an excuse, far from it. But in keeping with the recognition process, you should keep in mind the physical manifestations and their effects on your body and mind.

Hormones or not, you are not alone. There are some us who are way beyond the teenage years and are still very much struggling with the exact same thing. It is truly a life-long battle with many ups and downs (terrible unintended pun

). Personally, I try to focus on the big picture, i.e. the fact that I am a sinner at heart and that if it weren't for Christ and what he accomplished at Calvary, my destination would've surely been secured in hell. Instead, now I know it is secured in heaven because of his sacrifice for me.
Don't lose sight of that.

God bless,

Byblos.

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:54 am**

Byblos is right,

As a teenager the sexual drive and hormonal heights are in place and it makes it a far more difficult battle in some regards. This is the "burning" I think Paul refers too when he says it is better to marry than to burn. The desire for sex is healthy and God-given and marriage is the appropriate outlet to enjoy that wonderful and good gift.

One strategy that helps for me when I see a woman and begin to be tempted to dwell on lustful thoughts is to immediately stop what I am doing and pray for her, remembering that she is a person and not an object.

It's a common fallacy though for men to think that this problem goes away when you get older or when you get married. It doesn't. It may be less hormone driven, but it is still a sin of the flesh and it has powerful roots. Lust is a raging fire. The more it is fed, the hotter the fire burns, and this is true as men age and move on from less benign forms such as fantasy and pornography and then find the need more and then you are dealing with affairs, prostitutes and it can move on from there and get worse. How's that for blunt?

The habits we set as young men can be overcome. They are habits though and it takes time, prayer, effort, accountibility and above all the work of God in our hearts and lives.

Better by far is as a young man to learn these lessons, find the boundaries and not allow this type of habitual sin to gain a foothold.

Bart

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:11 am**

Bart wrote:The habits we set as young men can be overcome. They are habits though and it takes time, prayer, effort, accountibility and above all the work of God in our hearts and lives.

Better by far is as a young man to learn these lessons, find the boundaries and not allow this type of habitual sin to gain a foothold.

Amen! I wish I would have gotten this advice as a youth with raging hormones. Besides the guilt and shame I brought on myself through giving into "things" in my selfish desires, I fear I have blurred the line between sex and love. It's only By God's grace and enduring mercy that I am beginning to see the difference now. Jesus Christ truly does deliver us from the body of this death.

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:16 am**

Canuckster1127 wrote:Byblos is right,

As a teenager the sexual drive and hormonal heights are in place and it makes it a far more difficult battle in some regards. This is the "burning" I think Paul refers too when he says it is better to marry than to burn. The desire for sex is healthy and God-given and marriage is the appropriate outlet to enjoy that wonderful and good gift.

One strategy that helps for me when I see a woman and begin to be tempted to dwell on lustful thoughts is to immediately stop what I am doing and pray for her, remembering that she is a person and not an object.

It's a common fallacy though for men to think that this problem goes away when you get older or when you get married. It doesn't. It may be less hormone driven, but it is still a sin of the flesh and it has powerful roots. Lust is a raging fire. The more it is fed, the hotter the fire burns, and this is true as men age and move on from less benign forms such as fantasy and pornography and then find the need more and then you are dealing with affairs, prostitutes and it can move on from there and get worse. How's that for blunt?

The habits we set as young men can be overcome. They are habits though and it takes time, prayer, effort, accountibility and above all the work of God in our hearts and lives.

Better by far is as a young man to learn these lessons, find the boundaries and not allow this type of habitual sin to gain a foothold.

Bart

AMEN!!! That website that Bart showed earlier is amazing. I just posted there Yesterday and just introduced myself in the Forum. I was given a link that had amazing Facts and God Given Authority. Then Terry gave me his Testimony and I just stepped back in amazement. I get the Temptation every so often sometimes I fail miserably and other times I lean on God and the Temptation leaves. I find when you Lean on God it gives you more strength to stand up to the next one. The More you Fight the easier it gets for you! The more you give in the harder it gets for you.

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:37 am**

Bizzt wrote:I find when you Lean on God it gives you more strength to stand up to the next one. The More you Fight the easier it gets for you! The more you give in the harder it gets for you.

Amen, and the great thing is that when you submit to Him it is in actuality God who is fighting for you and through you, which takes so much pressure off of you. Praise God for His grace!

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:06 am**

FFC wrote:
Bizzt wrote:I find when you Lean on God it gives you more strength to stand up to the next one. The More you Fight the easier it gets for you! The more you give in the harder it gets for you.
Amen, and the great thing is that when you submit to Him it is in actuality God who is fighting for you and through you, which takes so much pressure off of you. Praise God for His grace!

So TRUE!!!

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:08 am**

Canuckster1127 wrote:As a teenager the sexual drive and hormonal heights are in place and it makes it a far more difficult battle in some regards.

Well that is another thing God should take into account, shouldnt he? ANd its another thing which manipulates the free will. Because sometimes its easier to overcome temptation and sometimes its not only due to hormones. In theory that means that if you are sort of "genetically speical", for example that you produce too much or too little, and you then have more lust (or less if less produced) then isnt this kind of excuse or something like that? Eg we could say "that person has no lustful ideas because he can control himself etc" but it can be only because he doenst produce hormones etc - that the free will is disrupted by chemistry. Not that i hate chemistry, i like it acy=taully but i think it shouldnt interfere with free will and abilities to sin. So Eg someone becomes a lustful person because he has too mnay hormones and if he hadnt had - genetic, he wouldn have llusted. Does God take this into account? Not just lust - all genetic. SOmething is genetic and then the person can eg become more/less christian or less/more good. Does God consider that? I mean, he's PERFECT.... but what IF that oerson WOULD have had different genetic info? It would have been different, wouldnt it? And does God judge us on what we HAVE done or what WOULD have had happened if that and that was different? Jus asking... many things liek that bother me because it shows this life is unfair, some do evil/good easier than others etc....

And the kissing i mentioned before is not just on cheek but really like you'd do woth your wife etc - like lips etc. I was askin whether thats sin - not just showing life but do it for pleasure etc.

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:28 am**

madscientist wrote:
Canuckster1127 wrote:As a teenager the sexual drive and hormonal heights are in place and it makes it a far more difficult battle in some regards.
Well that is another thing God should take into account, shouldnt he? ANd its another thing which manipulates the free will. Because sometimes its easier to overcome temptation and sometimes its not only due to hormones. In theory that means that if you are sort of "genetically speical", for example that you produce too much or too little, and you then have more lust (or less if less produced) then isnt this kind of excuse or something like that? Eg we could say "that person has no lustful ideas because he can control himself etc" but it can be only because he doenst produce hormones etc - that the free will is disrupted by chemistry. Not that i hate chemistry, i like it acy=taully but i think it shouldnt interfere with free will and abilities to sin. So Eg someone becomes a lustful person because he has too mnay hormones and if he hadnt had - genetic, he wouldn have llusted. Does God take this into account? Not just lust - all genetic. SOmething is genetic and then the person can eg become more/less christian or less/more good. Does God consider that? I mean, he's PERFECT.... but what IF that oerson WOULD have had different genetic info? It would have been different, wouldnt it? And does God judge us on what we HAVE done or what WOULD have had happened if that and that was different? Jus asking... many things liek that bother me because it shows this life is unfair, some do evil/good easier than others etc....

And the kissing i mentioned before is not just on cheek but really like you'd do woth your wife etc - like lips etc. I was askin whether thats sin - not just showing life but do it for pleasure etc.

I don't think God grades on a scale in this regard. When it comes to salvation, you either pass or fail. There's no grading scale. The standard is perfection. Apart from Christ we all fail. It is only when Jesus' grace is appropriated on our behalf that we are saved.

In terms of our own personal walks, there is no question that different "sins" may have different levels of appeal to different people for all kinds of different reasons.

What we're dealing with here is not salvation. We're talking about Christian's personal holiness and sanctification.

I believe the Bible when it says, I Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Focusing on the sin itself and trying to rationalize and justify why we are victims or why it isn't fair that some are more tempted than others is no solution.

For the Christian, we must focus on God and the power available along with the way out to live free of it.

My thoughts anyway.

Bart

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:52 am**

Canuckster1127 wrote:Focusing on the sin itself and trying to rationalize and justify why we are victims or why it isn't fair that some are more tempted than others is no solution.

For the Christian, we must focus on God and the power available along with the way out to live free of it.

My thoughts anyway.

Bart

That's exactly what I was trying to convey (and evidently miserably failed

). We need to literally train ourselves to focus on God and how he can help us rather than on sin itself and how it's taking a hold of us. If you can't help but focus on sin, then think of it in terms of how God tests us over and over again. Not so much to make us feel like failures per se (which we are) but rather to remind us of our utter dependence on him.

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:36 pm**

OK... but there still could be unfairness in this world, in terms of salvation? That some get more chance than others? Maybe not since GODS PERFECT but if its Gods will who gets saved and who doesnt then maybe it is that fair.
ANyway... back to lust. Was lust just made so that man must learn to overcome something very tempting in this life to have eternal life? Because if there was nothing to overcome in this world then everyone would have eternal life since the idea of heaven would be more easier than to go against it. Probably that was Gods idea i dont know.
Anyway... is it possible to completely live without any lust? Eg that your will is so strong you just dont do it?? Is it possible? Ive heard its not but maybe some people can do it. U kno of any cases?

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:14 pm**

madscientist wrote:ANyway... back to lust. Was lust just made so that man must learn to overcome something very tempting in this life to have eternal life? Because if there was nothing to overcome in this world then everyone would have eternal life since the idea of heaven would be more easier than to go against it. Probably that was Gods idea i dont know.
Anyway... is it possible to completely live without any lust? Eg that your will is so strong you just dont do it?? Is it possible? Ive heard its not but maybe some people can do it. U kno of any cases?

Not only is it possible, I believe it's been done a few times (dare I use the S word here? perhaps not). Yes, I've heard of a few that did live their lives completely devoid of sex or lust. In fact, they became devout monks, totally focused on Christ and prayer, shunning society, technology, even family and friends. The questions then become: 1) Can anyone of us do that? The answer, I think we'll all agree, is a resounding no. And 2) Is it necessary for us to do that? I think the answer is also a resounding no. The simple answer is that Christ's sacrifice relieved us of that nearly impossible burden (and thank God for that).

Byblos.

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:55 pm**

Byblos wrote: Yes, I've heard of a few that did live their lives completely devoid of sex or lust. In fact, they became devout monks, totally focused on Christ and prayer, shunning society, technology, even family and friends. The questions then become: 1) Can anyone of us do that? The answer, I think we'll all agree, is a resounding no. And 2) Is it necessary for us to do that? I think the answer is also a resounding no.

It's quite interesting that you say this, Byblos.

I'm not in the position to declare myself a loyal follower of Christ yet. I've not done enough reading, understanding, and living to fully determine with a strong conviction such things. Yet, I feel a strong, strong calling to live a life in the Word rather than on the outside of it.

I feel no direction in my life other than in the direction of finding truth about God (which I've been starting to believe lies within the Bible) and living in it. I've not had a job yet and have no plans of attending college. I simply have nothing which interests me enough to focus my life on it --- the exception being God.

I feel such an unknowing sense of love and understanding when I study and read the Bible. I've given up reading all other fiction books for now in the place of studying the Bible and reading books about the Bible. I feel so drawn to it and I'm starting to assume that it may be the purpose of my life to truly devote myself to it.

I'll be basing that decision on the outcome of my studying of the Bible after some good time has passed. In the present moment things are looking well as I begin to understand the complex doctrine more simply.

Does anyone know what the first step in this process would be? I believe this will sound a little silly, but how is it that say a Pastor at a Church first decides his position and then how would he attain it?

Posted: **Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:50 pm**

I read this entire thread, and it was all very enlightening. I realize that I am the only woman to post on this thread, but lust is something i too have been struggling with all my life. When I was very young, my uncle sexually abused me, up until I was about 11. Ever since then I have had lusts after almost every man who even showed me the slightest bit of attention, other than the normal amount. Also I grew up without my real father, and my stepfather didn't really show me that much attention or love. So I started looking for love any where I could find it. Unfortunately my definition of "love" was sex. I am much better at controlling myself, but I still find it hard to control myself sometimes. I am married now, and would never want to hurt my husband, so I definitely struggle with lust alot. Also, I know it is a sin against God, which makes it even worse. I would appreciate some thoughts here, from either men or women. (See, guys? You aren't alone here.)

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:45 am**

jenwat3 wrote:I read this entire thread, and it was all very enlightening. I realize that I am the only woman to post on this thread, but lust is something i too have been struggling with all my life. When I was very young, my uncle sexually abused me, up until I was about 11. Ever since then I have had lusts after almost every man who even showed me the slightest bit of attention, other than the normal amount. Also I grew up without my real father, and my stepfather didn't really show me that much attention or love. So I started looking for love any where I could find it. Unfortunately my definition of "love" was sex. I am much better at controlling myself, but I still find it hard to control myself sometimes. I am married now, and would never want to hurt my husband, so I definitely struggle with lust alot. Also, I know it is a sin against God, which makes it even worse. I would appreciate some thoughts here, from either men or women. (See, guys? You aren't alone here.)

Jenna,

Thanks for your honesty. It is not just a male problem. It's interesting to me though that in general for men the issue is usually more driven as a physical lust that sees women as objects. For women, what observation I've had and reading in the field, the drive is somewhat different but just as powerful and often finds root particularly in women who have absent or abusive fathers and what they're looking for is to fill an emotional void and they "learn" that sex is a currency that can be traded to try and meet it.

Sadly, in general again, the type of men willing to trade in this realm are often emotionally crippled and unable or unwilling to give the genuine care that is at the root.

I hope some of our wiser women will speak up and maybe a private conversation would be a good thing as well.

Learned patterns as child and young women are difficult to break and overcome (unless God directly intervenes with deliverance, which He sometimes does, but more often it appears He desires for us to go through the process of hard work and prayer and He promises us His support and Love which is sufficient.

I would strongly encourage you to consider speaking with a trusted pastor or counsellor and getting some support in this area. This is powerful stuff and we should avail ourselves of every resource. It sounds like you have made positive progress and are in a healthy marriage which is wonderful. Marriage doesn't necessarily solve these issues. It's not about the sex. It's about the emotional needs and getting them met in a way God designed us. Old habits in thinking and feeling CAN be broken and healing CAN happen for any of us.

I'm reluctant to try to say more because as a male there are some elements of this for a woman that I'm just not equipped to understand as well or to assist with. If you do look for a counsellor in any capacity I would strongly recommend it be another woman.

Bart

Evidence for God from Science

Struggling with lust

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