Evidence for God from Science

1stjohn0666 wrote:Irenaeus has a book called "Against Heresies" and to keep with "orthodoxy" it should be noted that in book 5 chapt 31 it says "Some who are reckoned among the ORTHODOX go beyond the prearranged plan for the exaltation of the just, and are ignorant of the methods by which they are disciplined beforehand for incorruption. They thus entertain heretical opinions. For the heretics, not admitting the salvation of their flesh, affirm that immediately upon their death they shall pass above the heavens." When did this change? It should be noted that it is the heretics that teach you go on to eternal bliss. Which is contrary to when we put on immortality. Do we die, go to heaven mortal, wait for Jesus to go back to Earth and put our "disembodied spirits" or "ghosts" in our new glorified bodies? Justin Martyr stated in "dialouge with Trypho" of (immortality of the soul) "That the soul is immortal, but the body mortal, and incapable of being revived. For this we used to hear from Plato, even before we learned the truth. If then the Saviour said this and proclaimed salvation to the soul alone, what new thing beyond what we heard from Plato, did He bring us?"

David is not in heaven, Enoch, Elijah...etc. the bible is clear about this.

http://carm.org/irenaeus-heresies5-19-31

CHAPTER 31 -- THE PRESERVATION OF OUR BODIES IS CONFIRMED BY THE RESURRECTION AND ASCENSION OF CHRIST: THE SOULS OF THE SAINTS DURING THE INTERMEDIATE PERIOD ARE IN A STATE OF EXPECTATION OF THAT TIME WHEN THEY SHALL RECEIVE THEIR PERFECT AND CONSUMMATED GLORY.

Since, again, some who are reckoned among the orthodox go beyond the pre-arranged plan for the exaltation of the just, and are ignorant of the methods by which they are disciplined beforehand for incorruption, they thus entertain heretical opinions.

For the heretics, despising the handiwork of God, and not admitting the salvation of their flesh, while they also treat the promise of God contemptuously, and pass beyond God altogether in the sentiments they form, affirm that immediately upon their death they shall pass above the heavens and the Demiurge, and go to the Mother (Achamoth) or to that Father whom they have feigned.

Those persons, therefore, who disallow a resurrection affecting the whole man (universam reprobant resurrectionem), and as far as in them lies remove it from the midst [of the Christian scheme], how can they be wondered at, if again they know nothing as to the plan of the resurrection?

For they do not choose to understand, that if these things are as they say, the Lord Himself, in whom they profess to believe, did not rise again upon the third day; but immediately upon His expiring on the cross, undoubtedly departed on high, leaving His body to the earth.

But the case was, that for three days He dwelt in the place where the dead were, as the prophet says concerning Him: "And the Lord remembered His dead saints who slept formerly in the land of sepulture; and He descended to them, to rescue and save them."(3) And the Lord Himself says, "As Jonas remained three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth."(4) Then also the apostle says, "But when He ascended, what is it but that He also descended into the lower parts of the earth?"(5) This, too, David says when prophesying of Him, "And thou hast delivered my soul from the nethermost hell;"(6) and on His rising again the third day, He said to Mary, who was the first to see and to worship Him, "Touch Me not, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to the disciples, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and unto your Father."(7)

1stjohn0666 wrote:I am not taking Irenaeus out of context. I am simply putting forth "orthodox" belief vs. heresy. We put on immortality at the 2nd coming not before.
Scripture is quite clear that David, Enoch, Elijah are not in heaven currently.
I like this line that is not finished. " and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and unto your Father, to my God and to your God" John 20:17

30 “I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.

32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

1stjohn0666 wrote:Jesus did not claim to be God "he said in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one" the words prior ... "25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.
26 “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand"
They are working together. Like Adam and Eve are not "one flesh' (to mean one person) because they have sex. They are two people performing in the same action... now there are different roles for each person.

1stjohn0666 wrote:That's the point "who was speaking" it certainly was NOT Jesus who said "I am God" it was the Jews

1stjohn0666 wrote:I am not taking Irenaeus out of context. I am simply putting forth "orthodox" belief vs. heresy. We put on immortality at the 2nd coming not before.
Scripture is quite clear that David, Enoch, Elijah are not in heaven currently.
I like this line that is not finished. " and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and unto your Father, to my God and to your God" John 20:17

1stjohn0666 wrote:Here is a very nice article I stumbled on:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?ppo=293

1stjohn0666 wrote:Hebrews 11 records all the people of faith listed died. Hebrews 11:5,13,32,39,40. I see "all these died" "did not receive the promise" and "not made perfect"

1stjohn0666 wrote:I am not Jw TY for trying.