Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:57 pm**

Oh, sorry John... Well in that case...

(it's hard to tell sometimes what people are actually writing here...)

Posted: **Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:53 am**

Lizard Man wrote:
Lizard wrote:Not to pry, but can you tell us why you left Christianity?
Because I'd rather have a direct relationship with God than with a prophet. Islam has changed my life in a way that Christianity never did.

How do you know that the Qur'an is the word of God?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:29 am**

August wrote:
Lizard Man wrote:
Lizard wrote:Not to pry, but can you tell us why you left Christianity?
Because I'd rather have a direct relationship with God than with a prophet. Islam has changed my life in a way that Christianity never did.
How do you know that the Qur'an is the word of God?

And you the Bible?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:46 am**

Lizard Man wrote:
August wrote:
Lizard Man wrote:
Lizard wrote:Not to pry, but can you tell us why you left Christianity?
Because I'd rather have a direct relationship with God than with a prophet. Islam has changed my life in a way that Christianity never did.
How do you know that the Qur'an is the word of God?
And you the Bible?

The Sheer Evidence
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibletru.html

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:45 pm**

Lizard Man wrote:
August wrote:
Lizard Man wrote:
Lizard wrote:Not to pry, but can you tell us why you left Christianity?
Because I'd rather have a direct relationship with God than with a prophet. Islam has changed my life in a way that Christianity never did.
How do you know that the Qur'an is the word of God?
And you the Bible?

If Christ was God's prophet, then the Bible would be, at least to a large extent, God's word if Christ advocated it (the OT) and it is a record of Christ's teachings (NT). That much could perhaps be agreed to. Yet, as in John 1, we believe the Word of God came to us in the form of flesh and blood in Christ.

Kurieuo

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:39 pm**

I guess my problem with Islam is that it claims to be the logical extension of the Bible.. They believe in Abraham, Moses, Jesus. etc.. as being prophets.. They just twist what was spoken.. So I guess if one refutes the Bible, then Islam would be refuted as well... Know what I mean?

Cheers,

G -

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:33 am**

bizzt wrote:The Sheer Evidence
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibletru.html

That link gives evidence for fulfillment of certain prophecies - prophecies also noted in the Qur'an. Christians and Muslims primarily disagree upon some of the prophecies of "the" messiah and the corruption of the good news of Jesus (pbuh). This does not mean that the New Testament has changed or been revised to any large extent over the centuries, but that Jesus' (pbuh) original teachings were already fragmented and many more completely lost when the Gospels were being written (40-80 years after his time). The man had a ministry of three years, yet only 10% of the NT consists of his own words.

Muslim view: The Bible is not the word of God. It contains the words of God, along with various other writings. Oh poop, I got carried away again.

Gman wrote: I guess my problem with Islam is that it claims to be the logical extension of the Bible.

No it doesn't.

The word "Bible" never apears once in the Qur'an, although there are references to "people of the book" and the Torah.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:51 pm**

Lizard Man wrote:No it doesn't. The word "Bible" never apears once in the Qur'an, although there are references to "people of the book" and the Torah.

No problem

... You won't even find the word "Bible" in the "Bible" either unless you want to translate it in greek. When I say that Islam claims to be the "logical" extension of the Bible, what I really mean is how they logically interpret the Bible. Islam claims that both Moses and Jesus are prophets correct?

In other words they are simply grabbing what they think the Bible means and twist it in order to support their own beliefs... In other words, to look cool, they say, "Hey we believe in the Bible, but only WE have the correct understanding of it." "We are authentic and have a heritage!" Sorry that doesn't fly with scriptural logic or integrity.. Ask any real Bible scholar near you...

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:30 pm**

This thread is not for the propagation of Islamic apologia, and while the subject of it does have to do with Islamic responses to aspects of Christianity (specifically, Muslim anger over Pope Benedict's recent history lecture to theological students in Germany) it does appear to invite comment from Muslims defending their reactions.

With regard to the relationship of the Qur'an to the Bible, the following information is somewhat relevant:

Time and time again, Muhammad testified to the integrity of the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians. He affirmed and confirmed them as the Word of God. Since Muslims believe the Quran to be the Word of God, then it is actually their God - "Allah" - testifying to the integrity and truthfulness of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures existing in Muhammad's lifetime.

There are about 12 verses in the Quran that specifically mention the Gospel. The Arabic word for Gospel is "Injil". Additionally a large number of other Quranic verses testify to the truth of the Gospel. Muhammad, as a self declared prophet, supported those Scriptures because he believed they were God's word as he believed his Quran was God's word.

In testifying to their integrity Muhammad unwittingly undercut his own credibility. Muhammad was unaware of the full extent of those Scripture's teachings and this ignorance allowed him to make contradictory statements because his words and teachings, i.e. the Quran, contradicted these Scriptures. Today, we recognize that God would not send a confused or ignorant man who contradicted himself and His word.

Many Muslims today say the Bible is corrupted. But there is nothing in the Quran that supports this. There is not one word in the Quran that teaches that the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians have been perverted by man. Instead, the opposite is true. The Quran supports the Bible.

Isn't it interesting that the Muslims' Quran has nothing to say about the corruption of the Scriptures of the largest religion on earth? During Muhammad's time Christian influence was known in Mecca. There were Jewish and Christian settlements in the Hijaz, and Christianity ringed the Saudi peninsula. Yet not one word is spoken by "Allah" concerning the Scriptures of their faith and not one word on the corruption of His previous Word.

The New Testament contains the stories of Jesus identifying Himself as the Son of God, Jesus predicting His crucifixion, death, and resurrection, Jesus calling God "Father". Jesus' teachings are contradicted by Muhammad in the Quran time and time again. Further, the Quran contradicts even the Old Testament stories related to such Biblical figures as Gideon, Saul, David, and Noah. Why didn't Islam's "Allah" speak up on corruption if these Scriptures were inaccurate of false? These themes are fundamental, why would the Muslims' god fail to address their corruption?

If such a corruption had actually taken place, wouldn't "Allah" have revealed it in the Quran? The Quran is full of vague statements, misquoted biblical stories, myths from pagan, Jewish, and Christian backgrounds, yet "Allah" has nothing to say about the corruption of His previous word. How could such an omission occur? One has to wonder who Muhammad's "Allah" really was. He certainly didn't appear to be the "All Knowing", or at least, if he knew, he wasn't telling.

Or was it that "Allah" didn't know because Muhammad didn't know?
Jesus taught that false prophets would come into the world and mislead many.

The whole article is worth reading for those interested in this subject as it goes into further detail on the points made above.

Source

A reminder of Board Purpose - that this is not a forum for publishing apologia of other faiths, but for Christians and sincere seekers.

[This is] a Christian website, which serves to provide a defense and persuasive case for Christianity as well as encouragement and instruction for Christian people and seekers.

This board is not for those who have strongly made up their mind that Christ is "not" for them; who merely wish to put down, debate, and argue against essential Christian beliefs.

Lizard Man, do you have some genuine questions as a sincere seeker of Christ? We would be happy to respond to them if you do.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:42 pm**

Hey nice new avatar you got there Judah... I don't really know what the lizard dude is advocating (well maybe)... But I don't feel threatened by him or what he has said yet. All is cool from my part here...

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:11 pm**

Gman wrote:Hey nice new avatar you got there Judah... I don't really know what the lizard dude is advocating (well maybe)... But I don't feel threatened by him or what he has said yet. All is cool from my part here...

Hi Gman. I'm still working on that avatar - it's not quite how I want it to look yet.

This is not about feeling threatened or not - it is simply about Board purpose.
I'm just being a bit of a stickler for the rules. I am sometimes.

But more than even that, I really would like to hear some genuine seeker-type questions from Lizard Man, rather than his defence of Islam which is not what this Board is about.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:19 pm**

Why are you so afraid of Muslims asking questions or defending their positions? If they feel that something is in error, why shouldn't they be able to have the chance to point it out? (of course you could close an argument by saying that "nothing" is in error, but that really smothers the chance of being open and objective, doesn't it? :p) I remember Richard criticizing Mormons for being hostile towards investigation of their doctrines - an odd parallel to the present situation we face.

Common logic discloses that if you are unwilling to defend a claim or can't do so, then don't make it. That goes for everything - from posting articles with questionable sources to making statements against other faiths and referring to them a "loathsome" or "hungry."

Regardless, if you don't feel comfortable with discussing Islam on the board simply for policy's sake, then that settles it. I do, however, invite everybody with questions or comments concerning Islam to just drop a note in my PM box or message me on AOL. All questions are welcome, as long as they aren't something completely ignorant like "do you know where I can buy a scarf for my head," or "do camels really keep sand inside their lumps?"

Until then, peace!

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:28 pm**

Lizard.. I too am willing to keep the door open if you ever wish to pm me too..

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:31 pm**

Lizard Man, you make an incorrect assumption about me here.
You are also making use of comments outside of their correct context, and I would expect it unlikely that you will accept the credibility of my sources.

However, it is quite proper that I point out Board Purpose when a thread is looking as though it is departing from those guidelines.

If you object to these policy statements, then you need to reconsider whether this board is the appropriate place for you to post your comments.

Do you have any questions that are in keeping with Board Purpose and Guidelines for posting?

There are plenty of folk here who are eager to respond to any genuine seeker type questions you may have.

Posted: **Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:08 pm**

Lizard Man wrote:
August wrote:
Lizard Man wrote:
Lizard wrote:Not to pry, but can you tell us why you left Christianity?
Because I'd rather have a direct relationship with God than with a prophet. Islam has changed my life in a way that Christianity never did.
How do you know that the Qur'an is the word of God?
And you the Bible?

That is a non-answer. The Bible is not part of the discussion. I will gladly answer it in another thread.