Evidence for God from Science

Mastermind wrote:Let's assume for a second Christ didn't abolish the old laws. I don't care. I'm not a jew, and as such, I wouldn't have to keep the Sabbath to begin with. And of course Jesus kept the Sabbath, it was still in effect until His ressurection.

Poetic_Soul wrote:How do you keep the Sabbath if you work for a power plant or a hospital?
These jobs are manditory for weekend shift work. How is the employee surpose to honor the Sabbath if they have to work?

bizzt wrote:I would like to add a Scripture for all to munch on
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

Friends and Brothers,

I am new to this site, having joined only two days ago. I found this discussion thread today and read each post. I am sorry to be adding what may be a lengthy post to this thread but I feel that this needs to be said.

The issue of whether Christians should worship on the Sabbath, be circumcised, or keep the old testament law are not new. In fact, these same questions arose in the first century Church. We can learn a lot by observing how they resolved the situation and what conclusions they came to.

I'm not going to include very much scripture here but I encourage each of you to look up and read the fifteenth chapter of Acts in its entirety. I'll summarize here.

Paul and Barnabas had returned to Antioch from their first missionary journey (Acts 13, 14). Shortly thereafter some Jewish Christians from Jerusalem came to Antioch and began teaching that the gentile Christians must be circumcised in order to be saved. Paul and Barnabas disagreed with them and they decided to go to Jerusalem to get to the bottom of the controversy. Note that Acts 15:1 does not mention the keeping of the law but Acts 15:24 does--these matters are tied very closely together.

When they arrived in Jerusalem, they all met with the Apostles and Church leaders to consider the matter. Peter recounted how the gospel had first been given to the gentiles through the conversion of Cornelius' household (Acts 10) and concluded with this statement in Acts 15:10 "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" If the Jews could not keep the law, why would the gentiles be required to?

James, the leader of the Jerusalem Church, gives his decision in verses 13-21. He concludes that the gentiles should not be required to keep the law but that they should be instructed and encouraged to abstain from "pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (verse 20) James reason for making this request is that there are Jews in every city (verse 21). Perhaps he is hoping that the gentile Christians can be a witness to these Jews.

Verses 23-29 contain the text of the letter that was sent to the gentile Christians from the Jerusalem Church. This letter was delevered to the Church in Antioch by Paul and Barnabus along with representatives of the Jerusalem Church who would testify of the matter in person. From this passage of scripture, it seems clear to me what the Apostles' intent was. I encourage each of you to read these scriptures yourself and prayerfully consider what God is saying to you through them.

Paul himself was always carefull to keep the law. However, when he recounts this Jerusalem meeting in Galatians 2 he emphasizes that he refused to allow Titus, who was with him and was a Greek, to be circumcised. In other scriptures, Paul encourages Jewish Christians to continue following the law and encourages the gentile Christians to continue in their "uncircumcision" (I Corinthians 7:19-20).

This does not mean that the gentile Christians are free to do whatever they want to do. Paul encouraged them to "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 5:1). He also encouraged them to "Walk in the spirit..." (Galatians 5:16, Romans 8:1).

As you know, Jesus was also careful to follow the law. He said that not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all was fulfilled (Matthew 5:18). When asked which commandment was the greatest Jesus did not respond with one of the '10' but rather said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40). I personally believe that this is the one lesson that the Church most needs to learn today.

Jesus said that the law would be fulfilled and He went on to keep the law perfectly. No one before Him had been able to do this and no one after Him has succeeded either. However, Paul writing in Romans 8:4 said that "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." I want to make two points here: 1) the law contains the righteousness of God, and 2) God's intent is that this righteousness will be "fulfilled" in us.

Paul writes in Romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." If we can learn to love one another the way that God loves us, this "righteousness" will be fulfilled in us as the scriptures promised it would be.

I love this passage of scripture in Romans 13. It tells us that love fulfills the law. Then it identifies which law it is talking about (Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet). Finally it includes a "catch-all" clause (if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself). All of the commandments are summed up in this phrase "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".

Jesus intends for His followers to be righteous and full of His love one for another. We may not be able to all agree on what every scripture means but we can all do more to show His love. It may seem strange to you that this post started out discussing the law and ended up talking about God's love but I hope you can see that these two topics are related to each other by the scriptures--not by my words. In closing, let me remind each of you that "By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (John 13:35).

RGeeB wrote:I think there are two separate issues here:

1) Has the law been annulled?
2) What are the commandments God wants Christians to obey?

I believe the answer to 1) is no and the answer to 2) is found in the post above.

Jesus kept the law (all of it) and also fulfilled it. One is saved by faith in the Person who was perfect under the law. We don't have a choice of picking which Mosaic law to keep and which to discard. If we want to do that, we have to keep all of the 613 requirements, to escape its curse. I think the right attitude would be - I keep the sabbath because of my faith in the Law of Christ, not because its listed in my edited Torah. It can be difficult to learn to walk in the liberty of the Spirit, it gets easier with Christian maturity.

BavarianWheels wrote:

bizzt wrote:I would like to add a Scripture for all to munch on
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

This text no more does away with the Sabbath than it does in meat or drink. I assume you haven't given up food?
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Joel Freeman wrote:

BavarianWheels wrote:

bizzt wrote:I would like to add a Scripture for all to munch on
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

This text no more does away with the Sabbath than it does in meat or drink. I assume you haven't given up food?
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I think you misunderstood that. It's not saying you have to do any certain thing. My understanding is that it's basically saying that if you do uphold the laws, then don't let anybody judge you in that.

Matthew 12:1-13
1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.