Evidence for God from Science

JCSx2 wrote:Jen.

I am interested in what you will post on this.

Also, what book is it?

I have always thrown myself in the Gentile category not even thinking I may actually have a lineage going to ancient Israel.

My Mom is German 100%

My Father is Hillbilly 100%

jenwat3 wrote:Also, about the covenant between God and Israel "for all generations"- many people do not realize that WE ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF ANCIENT ISRAEL, so it would apply to us today.

Highly doubtful, in my perhaps not-so-humble opinion. But more importantly, even if we were the physical descendants of Israel, it wouldn't matter, because we do not now approach God on the basis of His covenant of Law with Israel (which was designed to condemn man and show us our need for a Savior), but rather on the basis of the Savior who has now come. Whether we are Jews or Gentiles, when we put our trust in Christ we are considered crucified with Him. The relevance of this concept to the Law is further explained in Rom. 7:1-4:

"Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God."

So it is not that the covenant of Law has passed away, but in a sense it has because its application to believers is abolished, because we have died to it in becoming united with Christ. We are not now regarded as either Jews or Gentiles, but simply Christians (see Gal. 3:28). Christ "made both groups [Jew and Gentile] into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man", i.e., the church (Eph. 2:14-15). Which do you prefer to be joined to, the Law or Christ?

jenwat3 wrote:And one other thing, the Sabbath did not actually come from Moses's time, so therefore it can't truly be called a "Mosaic Law". The Sabbath was actually made in the creation week.

It's true that the symbolism of the Sabbath was around from the beginning, but there is no evidence that any of the patriarchs (Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc.) before Moses were ever instructed to observe it as a in the Law (i.e., to refrain from work on that day).

Actually there IS evidence about the patriarchs, among others, keeping the Sabbath. Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath almost immediately after their creation on the 6th day. Their son Abel is called "righteous" (Matt. 23:35). Since Psalm 119:72 explains "All Your commandments are RIGHTEOUS" Abel kept the Sabbath. Since Enoch "walked with God" as a preacher of righteousness, he obviously kept the Sabbath. Noah, also a "preacher of righteousness", would certainly have kept it. Abraham, often called "the father of the faithful", kept God's Sabbath. Genesis 26:5: "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My COMMANDMENTS, My statutes, and My laws." Also, in 1 John 5:17 "all unrighteousness is sin". And 1 John 3:4 "whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law." Since sin is the transgression of the law, and the opposite would be obedience to the law, then exactly what law must we obey? The 10 commandments! His law did not condemn us, but was made to show how He wanted us to live. And yes, we should live our lives on the basis of Christ, who even Himself kept the Sabbath! Should we not follow in His ways?

And the problem with arguing in circles is you always come back to the same place. Oh well, it's been instructive for me, and hopefully others as well. God bless!

Well, of course I keep coming back to the same place! Also known as the word of God, or the bible! But hey! Don't quit on me now! I was enjoying this. And as I said earlier, you do bring up some excellent points. This gives me alot to think about and more reasons to study. I enjoy getting more verses to look up. It helps me study.

Hi Jenna,

Here's some proper biblical perspectives on the Sabbath.
The Sabbath was instituted at the end of creation week, Genesis 2:2, "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."
So the Sabbath was instituted by God before sin ever entered the world.
Exodus 20:8, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Here God asks the Israelites to 'REMEMBER' the Sabbath day. It was not commanded. This is the joining law between our love for God and love for our fellow man. The first three commandments were to show us how our relationship to God is kept right, the last six deal with our relationships to other people. The fourth commandment stands alone as a choice. If we choose not to keep the Sabbath as God has instructed then our relationship to Him is adversely affected, then our relationship to other people follows soon after.
Speaking of the new heavens and earth God through the prophet Isaiah writes Isaiah 66:23, "And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD."
It is clear then that the Sabbath will be kept after sin has been destroyed. The Sabbath which was first set up at the end of the creation week.
Why then do so many Christians go to church on Sunday? Many people will tell you that they keep Sunday as Sabbath because it honors Jesus resurrection (that is what baptism is for). This is a great untruth that has deceived millions. If you go back in history you will find that it was the Roman emperor Constantine who gave a type of holiness to Sunday, the FIRST day of the week. He did change the day but set up the mechanism which would ultimately see the true Sabbath neglected for a false substitute.
I could easily write more on the subject but we all need sleep.
Jesus kept the Sabbath and Paul asks us to imitate him as he imitates Christ. Jesus also said that He came to fulfill the law not to do away with it.
It is very clear from a proper search of the scripture that you will find nowhere is there any passage that changes the Sabbath from the seventh day (Saturday) to the first day (Sunday).
If you really want to know more then phone your local Seventh Day Adventist church for some real in depth study. It's a beautiful day when learned how to keep it as God has asked.

Cheers

Jash

Jash, I appreciate your comments and agree with them totally. The SDA's are correct in the Sabbath-keeping, however some of their beliefs I do not agree on. Thank you for the suggestion though.

jenna wrote:...however some of their beliefs I do not agree on.

As an Adventist myself...I'd have to agree with you.
.
.

BavarianWheels wrote:

jenna wrote:...however some of their beliefs I do not agree on.

As an Adventist myself...I'd have to agree with you.
.
.

Hey! What was that for?

jenna wrote:

Enigma7457 wrote:Why did God command we keep the SABBATH and not the SATURDAY? I'm sure if he cared what day it was, the commandment would have read: Remember to rest on SATURDAY and keep it holy.

Because God did not name the days of the week, man did. The seven-day cycle has never been changed, so the Sabbath would have been Saturday then just as it is now.

Not quite right — Lunar Year differs much from our solar current solar year. Your own birthday changes dates each year.

Regarding the Sabbath day Rest:

Problem with the subject of the Sabbath is this — keeping it leads to legalism or as Jesus said — man serving the Sabbath. People try to define what they cannot do on the Sabbath regarding work and create ideas on how one is to honor the Sabbath day.

Ultra-orthodox Jew's have a whole list they created to define what is work. Some, on the day before the Sabbath will pre-tear sheets of toilet paper as tearing is view as work. But what of wiping? Hmmm, let us not go there...

What I have read so far points to people serving the Sabbath day by creating what it means to rest and work. Please note that the Sabbath day was made for man. As God rested from what he created — we too are called to take a day and rest from what we create and reflect on what the Creator created for us — grace.

What do you create? Envy? Strife? Legalism and rituals? Drunkenness? Creating more work keeping the Sabbath rest than resting?

The Sabbath day is a day of rest where we give rest to others by ceasing what we been busy creating. Instead of resting before the TV watching the game, husbands, give your wife a rest and cook dinner and wash the dishes for your wives. Wives, give rest to husbands and mow the yard. You see, the Sabbath rest is a day in which we share rest and honor God by demonstrating our love for God by loving others. God rested from creating so should we and give rest too.

Think I am daff on this? Read Isaiah 58:13-14

Colossians 2:16-17: Are you passing judgment on what day one worships — rest from what you are now creating…

Hebrews 4:1-10: We have, as Christians, entered the Sabbath Rest — Grace — live it — shine it…

Romans 13:8-10: Love fulfills the Law — he who loves cannot break the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:1-14: Acts of Love cannot break the Sabbath therefore take a day of rest from what you created this past week and Love by granting the grace of rest to another.

Re-read Isaiah 58:13-14 again and God Bless!
-
-
-

B.W., the times you are referring to are months and years. Notice from the creation week, the seven-day week cycle has never been broken. What day my birthday falls on each year is irrelevant. There are still only 7 days in a week, and there has never been any change in it. It is amazing how many excuses people can come up with to ignore what God tells them to do!

jenna wrote:B.W., the times you are referring to are months and years. Notice from the creation week, the seven-day week cycle has never been broken. What day my birthday falls on each year is irrelevant. There are still only 7 days in a week, and there has never been any change in it. It is amazing how many excuses people can come up with to ignore what God tells them to do!

Love fulfills the law and what did Jesus say about the Sabbath?

Mat 12:12, "Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

Cannot you take rest from what you create Jen?

You are correct - It is amazing how many excuses people can come up with to ignore what God tells them to do!
-
-
-

Yes, you can take rest from what you create, I never said differently. God made the Sabbath for man. It was to be a sign between Him and His people forever. So if we are to be considered His people, should we not keep the Sabbath? This was the ONLY sign He gave that would truly identify those He considered His. The Sabbath, along with the rest of the 10 commandments, were never done away with. It was the penalty for breaking them (death) that was done away with when Christ died for us. I find it funny that you would try to use my own words against me, when I DO keep the Sabbath. What day do YOU keep, B.W.?

.
.
If Sabbath keeping is "bad"...why then did Christ even keep it or show his disciples to do the same?

What is the "good" you speak of when you quote Christ's words on doing "good" on the Sabbath?

The funniest thing about lumping the Sabbath in with the "the law is fulfilled and so we are no longer under the law" is that if I go to your house tonight and steal your car...you call me a bad person for stealing...of if I go and murder your whole family...you'll call me a murderer. And yet you say we are no longer under the law. (of course I am not speaking at all about today's laws against such acts).

Everyone always quotes the passage saying something to the effect of, "Do not let anyone judge you on eating or drinking or a sabbath day..." yet no one has EVER stopped eating or drinking.

The Sabbath is not meant to be kept for legalistic reasons...keeping the Sabbath wont even do anything towards your salvation of itself. It is the commitment to keeping the law of God that is the important thing...even though we fail in every way. But just because we are sinful, doesn't give us the open door to disregard those things that God has deemed important.

We all know no one has ever kept even one of the commandments properly. To what purpose was ANY of them uttered?
.
.