Evidence for God from Science

tsellisjr wrote:Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

False. You are intelligent but do not know what you are talking about here.

Are you willing to receive Truth?

FL

cslewislover wrote:

tsellisjr wrote: 1) I've done a great deal of research on this matter and while I don't disagree with you in saying that there is a great deal of value in the examination of religious works and documentation in fact that is the central focus of my research. Languages which were once thought dead have been rediscovered through the discovery of once lost gospels & libers, we're able to understand the origins and rational behind the Graphemic Alphabets such as English because the Hebrew Alphabet is one of the first letter based languages, we've discovered the multiple meanings behind each graphemic letters, which in turn has allowed us to discover and solve hidden ciphers in these works (When I say "ciphers" I'm not talking about that netbot Bible Code garbage, because it holds the same value academically as those 99 cent word search puzzles found at the register of every grocery store on Earth, but actual true and intentional ciphers) to make archeaological disoveries... But you must understand that the scholarly criterion for "Historical Documentation" doesn't allow pantheonic and religious works, because we would then have to consider the Greek Gods from classical Antiquated poems mythological vitaes a legitimate to fit the form of "historical documentation.)

Can you give what documents/more details - what lost gospels? Many or all of these are forgeries or written later. I'd need to look up the ones you're talking about.

2) . . . No two people can live exact lives, so the depths of my personal knowledge is limited by segregating myself from those with different perspectives.

Sorry? Lol

3) I know, I appreciate it, thanks

You're welcome.

Google Historical Documentation of "Jesus Christ" and "Did Jesus truly exist". Read through the information given by academic and scholarly institutes and avoid privately owned sites.

When I return to my office, I will provide a complete list of links and my E-Library catalog to request any literature and vitae you wish to examine.

tsellisjr wrote:Google Historical Documentation of "Jesus Christ" and "Did Jesus truly exist".

Google? Are you so bereft of sources that you must rely on Google?

And you have a Ph.D.? Are you serious or are you a liar?

FL

tsellisjr wrote:Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

Then I must ask you yet again, given the board purpose being for Christians and honest seekers, what is your purpose for being here? You do not appear to me to be here in the pursuit of earning any knowledge or seeking any truths.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:There is not one single piece of historical documentation which can verify the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

Here, from my own secular library, in my home, from a book open in front of me:

...Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the Populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origen, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus,* and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.... -The Annals, Tacitus, Book XV, chap. 44

...so there is at least one secular account about Jesus.

Why don't you admit you have an axe to grind, Dr Ellis? We could help you more easily if you relax and open your intelligence to the Truth.

FL

*emphasis mine.

Historical documents are documents that contain important information about a person, place, or event.

Most famous historical documents, consist of laws, accounts of battles (usually given by the victors), and the exploits of the powerful. Though these documents are of historical interest, these documents do not detail the daily lives of ordinary people, or the way society functioned. Anthropologists and Archeologists, generally are more interested in documents that describe the day to day lives of ordinary people, such as what they ate, what they worried about, hopes and/or dreams, and their family interaction. It is this information that allows Anthropologists and Archeologists, to understand and describe the way society was functioning at any particular time in history.

Tacticus had yet to be born during the chronological window in which Jesus is thought to have lived. In fact John of Patmos authored Revelations long before Aelianus Tacticus was born.

Sorry.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

False. You are intelligent but do not know what you are talking about here.

Are you willing to receive Truth?

FL

Since the day that you read your English Bible, you are reading what other men have told you were authored when the Old Testament/Tanakh was translated from the Hebrew Original, The Koine Greek of the majority of the New Testament, and the original Galilean Aramaic used in the Book of Matthew.

Until you have worked towards fluency in all three levels, the Gospels of the Bible are gossip and you're dependant on another man to act as the conduit for the words of your God. It seems to me that your need for a medium or translator negates the purpose of having a personal relationship with your God.

Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:Google Historical Documentation of "Jesus Christ" and "Did Jesus truly exist".

Google? Are you so bereft of sources that you must rely on Google?

And you have a Ph.D.? Are you serious or are you a liar?

FL

I reference and recommend search criteria for Google for the same reason that I use slides, videos, and provide recommended reading to students in an academic course.

Why do you feel the need to poison a level discussion with trite facetiousness?

Byblos wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

Then I must ask you yet again, given the board purpose being for Christians and honest seekers, what is your purpose for being here? You do not appear to me to be here in the pursuit of earning any knowledge or seeking any truths.

Vector knowledge has many definitions.

It could be that I am looking to challenge my own beliefs..

Or maybe I strive to ponder and understand the heart...

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. - Proverbs 21:2

tsellisjr wrote:

Byblos wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

Then I must ask you yet again, given the board purpose being for Christians and honest seekers, what is your purpose for being here? You do not appear to me to be here in the pursuit of earning any knowledge or seeking any truths.

Vector knowledge has many definitions.

It could be that I am looking to challenge my own beliefs..

Or maybe I strive to ponder and understand the heart...

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. - Proverbs 21:2

You didn't answer the question though, did you? Let me try this another way: GIVEN THE BOARD PURPOSE BEING FOR CHRISTIANS AND HONEST SEEKERS, and given that you are NEITHER, then I see no purpose for you being here. Are you telling us the champion of all atheists has an open mind to christianity? I find that very hard to believe.

tsellisjr wrote:Why do you feel the need to poison a level discussion with trite facetiousness?

I assure you, there is no «trite facetiousness» in my comments. I suspect you of being a fake, a hollow drum, and immature.

Let me explain: if I read Dickens for an hour, I can then speak and write like Dickens. If I read an English translation of Kant for an hour, I can then speak and write like Kant. This is an ability that I have but it doesn't make me Dickens or Kant. I suspect you have the same ability. This is why I call you a fake and a hollow drum.

Immaturity: your answer to me regarding historical documents is just plain silly! but I doubt that you can see that. Your comment saying that I would have to know Koine Greek, Hebrew and «Galiean» Aramaic in order to not have second-hand understanding of the Bible betrays - at once - your ignorance and your immaturity.

Immaturity 2: anyone with as much knowledge as you claim to have is not going to try to impress anybody. Your desire to impress is as big as a billboard:

tsellisjr wrote:Vector knowledge has many definitions.

What kind of person writes «Vector knowledge»?

Let me answer: a pedant.

+ + +

Listen, Ellis. You have come to a good place to learn about Christ and what He has done for you. I would suggest that you voluntarily refrain from posting until you you are able to do so in humility and intelligence.

FL

My Instability Theory unites intelligent design without the bias of intelligence, the ridiculous of God and Darwin's theory of evolution in reverse. Both intelligence and evolution have the presupposition that what is “created” is somehow better than whence it came. This judgment has no place in science any more than does god within the confines of intelligent design. As things “evolve”, which they mathematically must do because of the ultimate instability of molecules, we do not see the thing get closer to perfection, but further from it on a biological level. The first single crystal or amino acid or protein - the first usable building block that has stood the test of time unadulterated is the only God to the molecular biologist. We do not know exactly what that was/is but we see it as the starting point. More appropriately, that first pattern was as close to perfection as possible — but ultimately not perfect. It may still have it's same form from the first bang, but because everything has a moniker of instability built into it at the most basic level, it is destined to change. This starting block unites and changes and devolves from a perfection standpoint. Humans are the ultimate cancer attached to one single, almost stable, almost perfect thing. How can a human be higher on an evolution scale than a single cell that has remained perfect in a piece of ice forever for all intents and purposes? There is an egocentric hierarchy that has gotten in the way of true science. The capacity to love or build computers or bombs are not scene under microscopes. Because we came up with the theory of evolution does not mean we get to sit on top of the totem pole uncontested.
Religion is loosing the battle to science so quickly as a rationale that religion has tried to turn god into a science with intelligent design. As religion often has morphed through hard times, this is another smokescreen to suggest we, the multi-celled organisms, are something more than we are. We were not designed and our sum is most definitely not greater than our parts. By projecting a perfection to us, intelligent design can incorporate god into our dna as being the ultimate thing guiding our construction and evolution. We are not a conduit built from mitochondrial GOD any more than we have evolved into the top thing as Darwin would have believed.
Where there appears to be guidance, I assure you there is none. There is only instability and with that comes the mathematical certainty that change will follow. Will that change be good or bad or intelligent or evolutionary is a morality issue that scientists don't need to ask. On a quantum physics level, far after Newton's Laws have proven ineffective we have Religious people suggesting God is in that tiny gray area guiding change. That's just another ridiculous leap of faith for an industry hit by hard times.
With billions of cells going through the unimaginary works to replicate and specialize — it's easy to see in humans how things go awry so frequently. Where some simple things may have remained unchanged over time, we are complex and on a stability scale — this is very bad. In terms of Darwin's evolutionary scale — we would have to be considered dna time bombs compared to a simple, more perfect, jellyfish. Cancers, viruses, disease, stupidity will help to secure humans as one of the shortest lived species to ever have destabilized from our forefathers' cells. Intelligence and evolution are certainly not the same thing.

Byblos wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:

Byblos wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:Knowledge and truth isn't something that can be given; only earned.

Then I must ask you yet again, given the board purpose being for Christians and honest seekers, what is your purpose for being here? You do not appear to me to be here in the pursuit of earning any knowledge or seeking any truths.

Vector knowledge has many definitions.

It could be that I am looking to challenge my own beliefs..

Or maybe I strive to ponder and understand the heart...

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. - Proverbs 21:2

You didn't answer the question though, did you? Let me try this another way: GIVEN THE BOARD PURPOSE BEING FOR CHRISTIANS AND HONEST SEEKERS, and given that you are NEITHER, then I see no purpose for you being here. Are you telling us the champion of all atheists has an open mind to christianity? I find that very hard to believe.

I did answer your question on three different occasions, but you refuse to recognize the answer, because it isn't fit your pre-conceived mold of how you view Atheists.

There are limits to the knowledge and perspective which can be offer through academic and scholarly institutes; nor does any degree I possess make me any greater knowledge or wisdom than someone who hasn't.

Any degrees that I may or may not possess does not negate the intellect of any person I encounter who doesn't possess equal credentials. My academic pursuits and accomplishments has given me the honorific "Dr.", a certificate made of hemp paper with gold trimming, greater access to scholarly resources than that which is offered by to the general public and the opportunity to travel to Italy for a summer internship with the Congregations for the Causes of Saints at the Vatican, study with highly regarded Rabbis in Israel, Shieks in Mecca, and the opportunity to be on the front lines for many archeaological discoveries... But for all that I have or have not done, there are forms of wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of the human condition which cannot be printed on paper and encapsulated in a leather binding.

If you're looking for me to call you an idiot practicing a religion, consider the validity of the metaphysical and believe in a God.. it's not going to happen, because as I have said in previous posts the crux of any religious point of view is shaped from the personal experience of an individual and no two persons can share same life.

WIth that being said... allow me to ask "Why are you so threatened with my presence in this forum?"

There is only one certainty and finality to personal growth.. that is death and I am not dead.

With High Regards...

tsellisjr wrote: I did answer your question on three different occasions, but you refuse to recognize the answer, because it isn't fit your pre-conceived mold of how you view Atheists.

There are limits to the knowledge and perspective which can be offer through academic and scholarly institutes; nor does any degree I possess make me any greater knowledge or wisdom than someone who hasn't.

Any degrees that I may or may not possess does not negate the intellect of any person I encounter who doesn't possess equal credentials. My academic pursuits and accomplishments has given me the honorific "Dr.", a certificate made of hemp paper with gold trimming, greater access to scholarly resources than that which is offered by to the general public and the opportunity to travel to Italy for a summer internship with the Congregations for the Causes of Saints at the Vatican, study with highly regarded Rabbis in Israel, Shieks in Mecca, and the opportunity to be on the front lines for many archeaological discoveries... But for all that I have or have not done, there are forms of wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of the human condition which cannot be printed on paper and encapsulated in a leather binding.

If you're looking for me to call you an idiot practicing a religion, consider the validity of the metaphysical and believe in a God.. it's not going to happen, because as I have said in previous posts the crux of any religious point of view is shaped from the personal experience of an individual and no two persons can share same life.

WIth that being said... allow me to ask "Why are you so threatened with my presence in this forum?"

There is only one certainty and finality to personal growth.. that is death and I am not dead.

With High Regards...

I don't hold people in higher regard because they have degrees, but it isn't good to tell people you're a doctor in the commonly understood sense when you're not.

I do not mean any disrespect or disregard at all by my next question. I'm just wondering: Have you been diagnosed with schizophrenia? Have you ever been checked for anything like that?

I don't think anyone here is "threatened" by you being on the board. It's a matter of what would be fruitful for everyone. That's what it seems to me.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

tsellisjr wrote:Why do you feel the need to poison a level discussion with trite facetiousness?

1) I assure you, there is no «trite facetiousness» in my comments. I suspect you of being a fake, a hollow drum, and immature.

Let me explain: if I read Dickens for an hour, I can then speak and write like Dickens. If I read an English translation of Kant for an hour, I can then speak and write like Kant. This is an ability that I have but it doesn't make me Dickens or Kant. I suspect you have the same ability. This is why I call you a fake and a hollow drum.

Immaturity: your answer to me regarding historical documents is just plain silly! but I doubt that you can see that. Your comment saying that I would have to know Koine Greek, Hebrew and «Galiean» Aramaic in order to not have second-hand understanding of the Bible betrays - at once - your ignorance and your immaturity.

Immaturity 2: anyone with as much knowledge as you claim to have is not going to try to impress anybody. Your desire to impress is as big as a billboard:

tsellisjr wrote:Vector knowledge has many definitions.

What kind of person writes «Vector knowledge»?

Let me answer: a pedant.

+ + +

Listen, Ellis. You have come to a good place to learn about Christ and what He has done for you. I would suggest that you voluntarily refrain from posting until you you are able to do so in humility and intelligence.

FL

1) Your unprovoked derision is the epitome of facetiousness and there is no rebuttal that I could author which could stand as a more fitting example and act as a greater testament to your own asininity than your own failed intellectual subterfuge to hide the extent of your own insecurities of your own system of beliefs and your inability to provide a meritable testimony.

2) I would suggest that you refrain from acting as the public representative of any religious body and disciple of any messianic doctrine until you can author one contradiction which is relevant to the discussions before any further impromptu use of elementary mockery without the presence of provocation.

cslewislover wrote:

tsellisjr wrote: I did answer your question on three different occasions, but you refuse to recognize the answer, because it isn't fit your pre-conceived mold of how you view Atheists.

There are limits to the knowledge and perspective which can be offer through academic and scholarly institutes; nor does any degree I possess make me any greater knowledge or wisdom than someone who hasn't.

Any degrees that I may or may not possess does not negate the intellect of any person I encounter who doesn't possess equal credentials. My academic pursuits and accomplishments has given me the honorific "Dr.", a certificate made of hemp paper with gold trimming, greater access to scholarly resources than that which is offered by to the general public and the opportunity to travel to Italy for a summer internship with the Congregations for the Causes of Saints at the Vatican, study with highly regarded Rabbis in Israel, Shieks in Mecca, and the opportunity to be on the front lines for many archeaological discoveries... But for all that I have or have not done, there are forms of wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of the human condition which cannot be printed on paper and encapsulated in a leather binding.

If you're looking for me to call you an idiot practicing a religion, consider the validity of the metaphysical and believe in a God.. it's not going to happen, because as I have said in previous posts the crux of any religious point of view is shaped from the personal experience of an individual and no two persons can share same life.

WIth that being said... allow me to ask "Why are you so threatened with my presence in this forum?"

There is only one certainty and finality to personal growth.. that is death and I am not dead.

With High Regards...

I don't hold people in higher regard because they have degrees, but it isn't good to tell people you're a doctor in the commonly understood sense when you're not.

I do not mean any disrespect or disregard at all by my next question. I'm just wondering: Have you been diagnosed with schizophrenia? Have you ever been checked for anything like that?

I don't think anyone here is "threatened" by you being on the board. It's a matter of what would be fruitful for everyone. That's what it seems to me.

I think the problem herein lies in your inability to differentiate between my references to the criterion of academic scholarly standards with my own personal opinions, due to my own failure to provide complete elaboration of intent.

When I have contradicted your statement and examples of what qualifies as historical documentation, I am not providing personal standards.. I am providing you with the field standards of authentication.

Personally, I don't have the slightest doubt that there once existed a Galilean Scholar and Healer/Physician known as Jesus of Nazareth. Nor do I doubt that this man was considered by many to be the Messiah prophecied in the Gospels of the Tanakh and Pre-Antiquated Apocryphic/Pseudepigraphic Gospels. But by the standards of relating Theological and HIstorical fields there are presently no historical documentation of Jesus of Nazareth; and the only one reference that has yet not been labeled as a fallacy is a single passage from Josephus where Josephus refers to Jesus as "The So Called Christ."

With that being said, it seems that this will soon change over the next couple of years because of the discovery of recent parchments which are centered around Barabbas, who is suggested as being a murderer in the New Covenant Gospels, which is a misinformed concept perpetuated by the difficulties of forming accurate Hebrew/Aramaic to english translations.

The aforementioned parchment confirm that Barabbas was infact an a political insurrectionist who publically protested Roman Occupation and the Sanherin corruption and it also documents two separate encounters between Barabbas and Jesus before Barabbas capture which preceded Jesus's own arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Now if you would like further information on this matter, then I will happily provide the in-field theological journals on this recent and potentially monumental discovery (In the sense that one of the key arguments used by many hardcore Anti-Christian activists is the absence of authenticated historical documentation.) when I return to my department office on Wednesday.