Evidence for God from Science

I wasn't saying that was a bad thing, I was simply stating it as it is.

But the question now becomes what defines lower/middle class. It doesn't take much for a two-income family to hit the 200,000 -250,000 mark. Anmd when you keep factoring in the fact that the number keeps changing. fropm 250 down to 200 and one quote even went down to 150, you have to wonder who it will be that will be hurt the most. The poor, the truly poor, already pay low to no taxes.

POint is...if his plan hurts the middle class, thenit WILL hurt the lower class. Doesn't anybody see this?!?!? If the small business owner must pay less or lay off a few workers, how will that help the poor? And if he tries to keep them on, it will eventually hurt the overall business.

By stifling growth, we hurt those who want to grow.

Here's one admittedly selfish way to think of it....the families that send their students to school, if they cannot afford to send their students to us, then I am out of a job. So although I would never hit that all important mark of Obama's, his plan would affect me potentially.

And this would be true to others like me. WE are lower class but our interests lie in the prosperity of those that we work for. If they fail, then we fail.

zoegirl wrote:But the question now becomes what defines lower/middle class. It doesn't take much for a two-income family to hit the 200,000 -250,000 mark. Anmd when you keep factoring in the fact that the number keeps changing. fropm 250 down to 200 and one quote even went down to 150, you have to wonder who it will be that will be hurt the most. The poor, the truly poor, already pay low to no taxes.

POint is...if his plan hurts the middle class, thenit WILL hurt the lower class. Doesn't anybody see this?!?!? If the small business owner must pay less or lay off a few workers, how will that help the poor? And if he tries to keep them on, it will eventually hurt the overall business.

By stifling growth, we hurt those who want to grow.

Here's one admittedly selfish way to think of it....the families that send their students to school, if they cannot afford to send their students to us, then I am out of a job. So although I would never hit that all important mark of Obama's, his plan would affect me potentially.

And this would be true to others like me. WE are lower class but our interests lie in the prosperity of those that we work for. If they fail, then we fail.

Not only that but what about the farmers? They hold assets in excesses of 250-150 thousand in land, equipment, etc. They will be taxed in excesses of 40 percent.

What about the poor middle class parents who have homes and property valued over 200 — 250 thousand? When they die, you sell the property and the government takes 40 per cent of it? Fair? (That's the death tax)

A Business owner who makes 200 to 250 thousand dollars off his business needs too, from those very funds deduct for the following: Employee salary, healthcare, insurance and liability insurance, re-investing back into business (equipment, etc), advertising, estimated income tax payment, and setting aside into a business bank account for slow down times, etc.

In essence a business owner that makes 250 thousand dollars needs 2 thirds of the 250 for the above reason which leaves him about 83 to 70 thousand dollars afterwards. This is further reduced by paying estimated income tax. So let's see...

Federal and State taxes will be back to around 40 percent. So 250 come to about 160 thousands dollars profit. One third of that comes to around 53 thousand and further reduced by owners on health insurance cost as well as estimate income tax payment. Reduce this also with putting aside into Business Bank account to cushion against slow times — the own makes around 40 to 45 thousand a year for working 10 to 12 hours a day running a business.

What is a person to do? Lay off employees and quit the business as it is better to work at Walmart for minimum wage and Obama to pay your mortgage than go through the pain of running your own business and becoming the EVIL RICH!

Look at Farmers and Cattleman: They'll earn in excess of 250 thousand dollars. Most of their funds go back into farming and cattle and not into making them rich by any means. They'll be taxed and the prices passed on to us.

The Robin Hood mentality is great for Hollywood movies and maybe the overthrow of the Czar but the reality of it is — tax those that create wealth will indeed hurt everyone as the taxes are passed on to rest of society. CEO's of major cooperation make the big bucks. Do not judge all business owners by comparing them to the CEO's. Business owners re-vest their monies to stay alive. CEO's live high off the hog and make deals with politicians like Barney Frank, etc…(Freddie and Fanny)…

Only thing Marxist thought offers is ideas. Ideas cannot feed you or keep you alive. Marxist idealism only leads too chaos while the masses starve.
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But no doubt about it, his tax plan helps the poor and middle class more than the upper class.

With all due respect Harry, that is yet to be seen.

if Obama goes with his plan to tax the rich then we will see increases in the price of goods to offset the tax increases.
If a loaf of bread cost five dollars and I have five dollars, I'm doing fine. If a loaf of bread cost a nickle and I don't have a nickle, I'm hurting.

I think the poor need help more than the upper class!!!

Sadly, this is not always true.
Some people will not help themselves. They simply do not work because with the hand-outs that are available all across our nation from many different charities and government assistance is just fine with them.

The worst I can think of are so-called parents who get assistance and use it to buy beer and lottery tickets. While school is out for the summer, the children have less to eat than when shool is open. Vouchers are sold for less than their dollar value and the money is used for illicit purposes,i.e. porno, drugs etc.

In the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, the $5000 dollars the citizens received were found to have been spent on booze, nudie bars, drugs, and who knows what else.

I can't see helping everyone as promised when the whole situation isn't well understood.
It is truly a shame that many promises are made only to get votes.

Just my .02

I'm sure have heard this before; "Only in America are our poor people called poor."

Cross.eyed wrote:

But no doubt about it, his tax plan helps the poor and middle class more than the upper class.

With all due respect Harry, that is yet to be seen.

if Obama goes with his plan to tax the rich then we will see increases in the price of goods to offset the tax increases.
If a loaf of bread cost five dollars and I have five dollars, I'm doing fine. If a loaf of bread cost a nickle and I don't have a nickle, I'm hurting.

I think the poor need help more than the upper class!!!

Sadly, this is not always true.
Some people will not help themselves. They simply do not work because with the hand-outs that are available all across our nation from many different charities and government assistance is just fine with them.

The worst I can think of are so-called parents who get assistance and use it to buy beer and lottery tickets. While school is out for the summer, the children have less to eat than when shool is open. Vouchers are sold for less than their dollar value and the money is used for illicit purposes,i.e. porno, drugs etc.

In the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, the $5000 dollars the citizens received were found to have been spent on booze, nudie bars, drugs, and who knows what else.

I can't see helping everyone as promised when the whole situation isn't well understood.
It is truly a shame that many promises are made only to get votes.

Just my .02

I'm sure have heard this before; "Only in America are our poor people called poor."

There needs to be reforms on both sides of the issue. The poor shouldn't take advantage of generosity, but the rich don't need huge tax breaks either.

But the issue is not the rich!!!! And it frsutrates me that this idea still permeates the understanding of his plan.

200,000 -250000 is not the truly rich...as B.W. explained, there are a large number of people who will not benefit from the tax increases who are not rich by the standard idea of rich. There are many families who reach this mark by their salaries but because of the large tax bracket still struggle to put their kids through college. They earn enough money to not meet financial aid standards but still struggle with the cost.

Obama made his campaign defining rich by this number and many people seem to have this idea that Donald Trump and the like will now suffer, by golly, like the rest of us. And this is laughable. THis will not hurt the rich.

You better believe I am looking into how much money I can put into my retirement plan....but Obama is planning to tax these too.

Here is something that doesn't have to do with taxes. Just for anyone's info.

What Can We Expect under
an Obama Administration?
Dear HSLDA Members and Friends of Homeschooling:

Since the election of Barack Obama as U.S. president, HSLDA has received more than a few calls from both members and nonmembers. Some are quite concerned about the future of homeschooling under an Obama presidency.

First of all, let us always remember that “God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7). He also instructs us to be wise, plan, and be prepared in everything we do.

Despite HSLDA's efforts prior to the election to get an official statement from the Obama campaign regarding their position on homeschooling, we received no response.

So where does that leave us?

We do know that the Democratic Party has an official position of supporting public education. The National Education Association (NEA), which is the national teachers union, is a major supporter of the Democratic Party. We know that the NEA's position is that every child should be either taught by a certified teacher or supervised by one. Additionally, their position is that the curriculum used by all homeschoolers should be approved by the state, and children should only be able to continue to be homeschooled based upon systematic evaluation by the state.

It is important to remember that under the United States Constitution, the federal government has no authority over private and home education. This is not to say that they will not attempt to exercise authority in these areas. And whenever private educators accept grants and benefits, there are conditions to receiving those benefits, including being subject to regulation.

Just because the federal government has no constitutional authority over home education, however, doesn't mean that federal bureaucrats or legislators might not attempt to impose some form of regulation over private and home education. We saw this back in 1994, when the reauthorization of the Secondary and Elementary Act (H.R. 6) contained an amendment which would have conditioned funding to the states for public education to require that all teachers be certified in every subject area they teach. The homeschool community rose up; over a million phone calls were made to the U.S. Congress, and the amendment was defeated. During that process, Representative **** Armey from Texas introduced an amendment which stated that the federal government and Congress have no authority over private and home education. This protective language was passed by the House of Representatives.

With your help and the help of homeschoolers all across America, we will vigorously resist any effort on the part of the federal government to regulate home education. Obviously, this will take resources—which come from our membership—and we would encourage our current members to continue standing with us, and encourage others to join us.

An immediate concern to watch is the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Although we do not know what Barack Obama's specific position on the treaty is, we know that future Vice President Joe Biden has publicly indicated that this UN Convention should be ratified by the United States.

It does appear that we will soon have the challenge of keeping the UN Convention from being ratified by the U.S. Senate, ratification requiring a two-thirds majority to pass.

Should the UN Convention be ratified, it would impose the United Nation's view of children's rights on America. Under the U.S. Constitution, treaties become the Supreme Law of the land, taking precedent over state laws and state supreme court decisions.

The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child is not in the best interest of parents or children, as it would undermine the parental authority that our laws currently recognize. For further information on the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child visit ParentalRights.org.

To summarize, homeschoolers should not live in fear, but we do need to be wise, and we will need to be vigilant to protect parental rights and homeschooling freedoms in the future. We stand prepared, with your help, to do that as we've done for 25 years.

Michael Smith
HSLDA President

Another notable mention...

Here is something not covered in the news:

Russia will be sending and basing its tactical Nuclear Bombers to Cuba very soon...

Heard a brief 10 second clip on the news about this and the rest of the news was typical of US news...

Next

As for the Rich - would it not be wonderful if you and I were rich? Do we not dream this?

The rich are not evil rouges who suppress the masses for profit. There are rouges who are CEO's that give the rich a bad rap. From what I hear several people say on this thread is that all the rich - just give their wealth away - then all will be well.

Question - what about you? Do you help support with your money those that provide for the poor and downtrodden? Do you give to charity? What's wrong - tired of this and desire to pass on this responsibility to only the rich? There are many who are rich that give great sums away.

After you take it all from the rich - then do not desire to become rich as all will be poor, and feeding on the bread and circuses fed to the masses by the Liberal Democrat's to ensure their absolute power and control supreme.

They are the rich you should fear…

Class Warfare is hate, envy, and jealousies fully manifest and nobly justified. Another question — should Christians support the concept of class warfare as taught by politicians?

A House divided against itself shall not stand does anyone get what is happening?

And now Russia is going to base tactical Nuclear Bombers in Cuba…
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FFC wrote:

Cross.eyed wrote:

But no doubt about it, his tax plan helps the poor and middle class more than the upper class.

With all due respect Harry, that is yet to be seen.

if Obama goes with his plan to tax the rich then we will see increases in the price of goods to offset the tax increases.
If a loaf of bread cost five dollars and I have five dollars, I'm doing fine. If a loaf of bread cost a nickle and I don't have a nickle, I'm hurting.

I think the poor need help more than the upper class!!!

Sadly, this is not always true.
Some people will not help themselves. They simply do not work because with the hand-outs that are available all across our nation from many different charities and government assistance is just fine with them.

The worst I can think of are so-called parents who get assistance and use it to buy beer and lottery tickets. While school is out for the summer, the children have less to eat than when shool is open. Vouchers are sold for less than their dollar value and the money is used for illicit purposes,i.e. porno, drugs etc.

In the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, the $5000 dollars the citizens received were found to have been spent on booze, nudie bars, drugs, and who knows what else.

I can't see helping everyone as promised when the whole situation isn't well understood.
It is truly a shame that many promises are made only to get votes.

Just my .02

I'm sure have heard this before; "Only in America are our poor people called poor."

There needs to be reforms on both sides of the issue. The poor shouldn't take advantage of generosity, but the rich don't need huge tax breaks either.

I love ya FFC but I respectfully have a different view when it comes to taxes.

There is no doubt that we need reform, but the problem is that most all this reforming talk comes from politicians merely looking for votes. The "reformation" attempts I've read about don't work in the long run. Remember how Clinton was going to wipe out welfare? Abysmal results at best which is business as usual with the federal government-if the program isn't working, throw more money at it! There is no real reform. In the case of Clintons plan, most recipients were back on welfare within eighteen months.
I'll agree the rich don't need tax breaks but this isn't about the rich as zoegirl said. Many couples with college age children who fall into this bracket struggle with costs because of increased taxes and that is just one example.

Small business owners suffer simarily and across the board, these business' have alot of employees of whom will suffer when tax increases cut into the needed profits of the company. Every business must make a given profit in order to protect that business-to keep prices competitive- or the business fails.

Here is something that may interest you; The top three percent of ALL income earners pay thirtysix percent of ALL income taxes.
Respectfully, my .02

B. W. wrote:Russia will be sending and basing its tactical Nuclear Bombers to Cuba very soon...

Heard a brief 10 second clip on the news about this and the rest of the news was typical of US news...

I heard about it here in Canada and also about USA installing nuclear missiles in Poland against Iran??? In Poland?

Zebulon

Zebulon wrote:

B. W. wrote:Russia will be sending and basing its tactical Nuclear Bombers to Cuba very soon...

Heard a brief 10 second clip on the news about this and the rest of the news was typical of US news...

I heard about it here in Canada and also about USA installing nuclear missiles in Poland against Iran??? In Poland?

Zebulon

Yes and that's about it - you do not hear much talk of these things in the news...
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Obama's White House Agenda: http://paleoconservatist.blogspot.com/2 ... genda.html

Obama released his budget today. So he lowered charitable deductions (hospitals are furious because this takes money that rich donors contribute away from them). He plans to raise the Capital gains tax, which will hurt the housing market. And he will push production of alternative energy vehicles when they average 30-40,000.

I know that the big controversy in other threads is his abortion agenda...and of course I dislike that. I dislike the fact that he is planning on penalizing the very people that can avtually stimulate investments in the economy.

zoegirl wrote:Obama released his budget today. So he lowered charitable deductions (hospitals are furious because this takes money that rich donors contribute away from them). He plans to raise the Capital gains tax, which will hurt the housing market. And he will push production of alternative energy vehicles when they average 30-40,000.

I know that the big controversy in other threads is his abortion agenda...and of course I dislike that. I dislike the fact that he is planning on penalizing the very people that can avtually stimulate investments in the economy.

Absolutly, his spendulous plan has NOT put in enough money to stimulate revenue for the government or the economy.

I don't mean to bring in another subject , but since you mentioned it:
As the economy shrinks, there is the probability of increased abortions too.
There is some point at which people will be thinking they can't afford another child to feed and clothe.

I saw an interesting cartoon about Prophet Obama in a local newspaper. Allow me to share it with you:

A reporter is interviewing Barack Obama in the Oval Office:

«What are you giving up for Lent, Mr. President?» to which Obama answers, «A free market economy!»

I thought it was funny!

FL