Evidence for God from Science

Gman wrote:

Josh wrote:Its been ages since i have indulged but compared to tobacco or alcohol, i see it as much better for you. Most cases involving links of marijuana users to cancer also involved tobacco. I think its fine to use it but not on a usual addicted basis as with anything.

Yes... Your opinion. Facts say otherwise...

I guess im missing something here? Its an opinion based on facts.

(1998) "3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?

"4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.

"5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.


Source: US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 56-57.
http://druglibrary.net/olsen/MEDICAL/YOUNG/young4.html

So? It doesn't directly cause death? Have you read the article yet, particularly the detrimental effects of marijuana?

A long time ago, long before I was a Christian, I had a boyfriend who smoked marijuana all the time. He was nice enough, sure. But he was very lethargic - to me that could indicate a slower reaction time which could cause someone to have an accident with machinery or vehicles. He also could hardly have sex, it affected him so much. Great drug . . . lol.

they call it dope for a reason!!

cslewislover wrote:So? It doesn't directly cause death? Have you read the article yet, particularly the detrimental effects of marijuana?

A long time ago, long before I was a Christian, I had a boyfriend who smoked marijuana all the time. He was nice enough, sure. But he was very lethargic - to me that could indicate a slower reaction time which could cause someone to have an accident with machinery or vehicles. He also could hardly have sex, it affected him so much. Great drug . . . lol.

The article is based on long term heavy use, im not saying its like water,(almost) anything under those circumstances can harm you in various ways.

No.

I think the second part sums up the reason for the your bad eperiences. I have many friends and family who use all the time and some less, the ones who use it more frequently are less prone to have/hold a job or generally get out and enjoy. In other words they are comfortable with being lazy but this isnt all of them, they also are more forgetful. I think reaction time has more to do while under the influence most symptoms are while high. The few who use it less frequently seem to be just as sharp as me if not more and in comparison to alcohol and tobacco it is a great drug.

Also I believe heroin/poppy plants are considered as dope.

lol found this on urbandictionary.com-

People who do not do drugs call Marajuanna Dope.
People who do Marajuanna call Heroin Dope.

Josh wrote:(1998) "3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?

"4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.

A 1998 quote? So you think that sticking your head into a campfire or car exhaust is healthy? The evidence reveals otherwise..

Smoked marijuana as a cause of lung injury.

Division of Pulmonaiy & Critical Care Medicine, Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine, UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1690, USA. dtashkin@mednet.ucla.edu
Abstract

In many societies, marijuana is the second most commonly smoked substance after tobacco. While delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is unique to marijuana and nicotine to tobacco, the smoke of marijuana, like that of tobacco, consists of a toxic mixture of gases and particulates, many of which are known to be harmful to the lung. Although far fewer marijuana than tobacco cigarettes are generally smoked on a daily basis, the pulmonary consequences of marijuana smoking may be magnified by the greater deposition of smoke particulates in the lung due to the differing manner in which marijuana is smoked. Whereas THC causes modest short-term bronchodilation, regular marijuana smoking produces a number of long-term pulmonary consequences, including chronic cough and sputum, histopathologic evidence of widespread airway inflammation and injury and immunohistochemical evidence of dysregulated growth of respiratory epithelial cells, that may be precursors to lung cancer. The THC in marijuana could contribute to some of these injurious changes through its ability to augment oxidative stress, cause mitochondrial dysfunction, and inhibit apoptosis. On the other hand, physiologic, clinical or epidemiologic evidence that marijuana smoking may lead to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or respiratory cancer is limited and inconsistent. Habitual use of marijuana is also associated with abnormalities in the structure and function of alveolar macrophages, including impairment in microbial phagocytosis and killing that is associated with defective production of immunostimulatory cytokines and nitric oxide, thereby potentially predisposing to pulmonary infection. In view of the growing interest in medicinal marijuana, further epidemiologic studies are needed to clarify the true risks of regular marijuana smoking on respiratory health.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16128224

Josh wrote:"5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.


Source: US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition" (Docket #86-22), September 6, 1988, p. 56-57.
http://druglibrary.net/olsen/MEDICAL/YOUNG/young4.html

This 1988 study is old..

Risk of lung cancer and past use of cannabis in Tunisia.

Voirin N, Berthiller J, Benhaí¯m-Luzon V, Boniol M, Straif K, Ayoub WB, Ayed FB, Sasco AJ.

Tobacco and Cancer Group, International Agency for Research on Cancer, Lyon, France.
Abstract

The association between the use of cannabis and the risk of lung cancer is unclear. A hospital-based case-control study was conducted among men in Tunisia and included 149 incident lung cancer cases and 188 controls. Tobacco smoking was significantly associated with an increased risk of lung cancer with odds ratios increasing linearly (p for trend < 0.0001) from 3.9 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.4-10.9) for former smokers to 17.1 (95% CI: 6.3-46.3) among current smokers who had smoked for >35 years. The odds ratio for the past use of cannabis and lung cancer was 4.1 (95% CI: 1.9-9.0) after adjustment for age, tobacco use, and occupational exposures. No clear dose-response relationship was observed between the risk of lung cancer and the intensity or duration of cannabis use. This study suggests that smoking cannabis may be a risk factor for lung cancer.

It is old but the information isnt dated. Ill do some more research but i can tell you ive seen contradictions of all the negative effects. The long term use has never been studied closely, but i definitly will look more into cannabis' relation to lung cancer, thanks for giving me reason.
BTW those to Snipits you posted both say cannabis use may cause lung cancer and list no actual chemicals that come from cannabis smoke or otherwise try to link cannabis to lung cancer through secondary use of tobacco.

Josh wrote:Its been ages since i have indulged but compared to tobacco or alcohol, i see it as much better for you. Most cases involving links of marijuana users to cancer also involved tobacco. I think its fine to use it but not on a usual addicted basis as with anything.

This is a popular myth among cannabis smokers and supporters. Does tobacco cause a wide range of mental health problems? Also, can you explain how you equate cannabis being "fine to use" as long as no addiction occurs? Are you aware of how addictive cannabis is? If you are, how would you go about controlling this ultra-fine line between legalised use and addiction prevention?

I have witnessed the self-delusion and mood affects of those who smoke up, and quite personally. It is harmful in many respects - familial, socially, emotionally, financially and physically.

Ask any person who does not smoke, who has had to put up with a smoker close to them for an extended period of time, and I am quite certain you will receive a response like my own. Such a person is in the best position to determine the impact of smoking weed. Negative physical affects are just the start.

This is not going to convince a smoker however (although they know they can't fool their loved ones), or someone who desires to smoke up.

Isn't pain relief the "medical" benefit? But, then again...there are probably better substances that you could be using for that.

WoW, all this over a plant!

No, all this over a personally harmful drug. Keep in mind cocaine and many other harmful drugs come from plants too.

Kurieuo wrote:No, all this over a personally harmful drug. Keep in mind cocaine and many other harmful drugs come from plants too.

First, I would like to say I do not endorce smoking pot!!!!!
With all due respect, may I say. This is nothing more than a plant. Created by GOD. I don't believe this is a drug no more than I believe GOD is a drug dealer. Street drugs have to be refined, IE Cocaine, Heroin, LSD, Meth, etc. Most, coming from plants. Except meth. Man takes GOD's plants or fruits and makes his drug/alcohol by refining it. Let me say again, I don't agree with smoking pot. But, I don't judge those who do. If a Christian believes smoking pot is ok, then who am I to judge that. My walk is not there walk and visa versa. Some people think prepared foods poison the body/temple as well. I mean come on, who doesn't like a slimjim? Have you ever read the ingredients? YUCK!!!!! But I still eat them. What about mechanically separated chicken? chicken that is then glued back together in all those familiar shapes. Do you know what they use to glue the chicken back together with? Or, how about Jell-O. My point is just because you and I don't believe its right to smoke pot dosen't make it right for another Christian. Let GOD judge his children. I don't allow my older son to punish my younger son. That is my job as there father. I don't drink either, but I don't judge those who do. Paul told Timothy to have a little wine for thy stomach, he didn't say drink the whole bottle.

This is not a personal attack Kurieuo.

P.S. Please pray for the fallen heros and there families this memorial day!

Are you saying that by refining the cocoa plant this makes cocaine bad??? Why in the world would the simple fact that we have to extract it make it bad??

It's the harm that it does to our bodies that makes it harmful. And marijuana is harmful.

And it is certainly our job to be discerning!! WHile eating processed foods may be bad for us and indeed some personally consider it to be avoided, eating a slim jim does not negatively affect my relationships, memory, and brain, nor does it impair judgement. Eating a slim jim would not affect my ability to drive, be a parent, or job performance, certainly at least not immediately. While the use of drugs, even marijuana, would do all of these things.

zoegirl wrote:Are you saying that by refining the cocoa plant this makes cocaine bad??? Why in the world would the simple fact that we have to extract it make it bad??

It's the harm that it does to our bodies that makes it harmful. And marijuana is harmful.

And it is certainly our job to be discerning!! WHile eating processed foods may be bad for us and indeed some personally consider it to be avoided, eating a slim jim does not negatively affect my relationships, memory, and brain, nor does it impair judgement. Eating a slim jim would not affect my ability to drive, be a parent, or job performance, certainly at least not immediately. While the use of drugs, even marijuana, would do all of these things.

Zoegirl,

I respect your oppinion about pot. Yes we have a right to be discerning, not condescending. Twice I said I do not endorce smoking pot. Did you miss this. All I'm saying is there is plenty of bad stuff out there. You win people over by showing love not pointing a finger and saying shame on you. I have no problem with a plant. My problem is with manufactured drugs like meth, heroin, coke, acid, ect. Have you seen any crack head? Have you ever seen a baby born addicted to meth? Have you ever seen what a person will do to get there next fix. Have you ever worked in a halfway house? The storied on the news are more about meth addiction and meth labs, not pot. Something that powerful (meth) has the abillity to consume anyone who takes it. I grew up in a hell hole and have watched this first hand. I have had friends die or killed because of meth and crack. Once again I do not endorce smoking pot!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the typical take most people like you have. Instead of helping the situation you make it worse. Yes a slim jim and fatty processed foods will affect you negatively, clogged arteries may lead to a stroke, heart attack, obesity, heart disease, and on and on. Yes that will effect your memory, brain, or a relationship. I hope your not driving a car if that were to happen. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. So please unclinch your fists.

zoegirl, thank you for your oppinion and GOD bless you.