Evidence for God from Science

TallMan wrote:

Jac3510 wrote: . . . Your eternal soul may well hang in the balance.

Ah, the pagan eternal soul doctrine.

Wha?

Byblos,

Might I suggest moving this thread to the "Aberrant Christianity" section? If you do a bit of googling, you'll find the group has many of the characteristics of common cults (i.e., no fellowship with ex-members, discouragement of reading non RCI material, excessive control of personal life by the pastoral staff, compulsory meetings, etc.)?

I think the title of the thread enough should warrant the move. It's typical of the "my church is the only true church" mentality, which is directly derived from the "restored movement" mentality common to all cults.

Just my $.02.

Jac3510 wrote:Byblos,

Might I suggest moving this thread to the "Aberrant Christianity" section? If you do a bit of googling, you'll find the group has many of the characteristics of common cults (i.e., no fellowship with ex-members, discouragement of reading non RCI material, excessive control of personal life by the pastoral staff, compulsory meetings, etc.)?

I think the title of the thread enough should warrant the move. It's typical of the "my church is the only true church" mentality, which is directly derived from the "restored movement" mentality common to all cults.

Just my $.02.

Good idea.

Jac3510 wrote: no fellowship with ex-members

If you knew what true fellowship is you would applaud this stand.

Jac3510 wrote:discouragement of reading non RCI material,

Are members of your church encouraged to read material of groups that you disagree with?
Is that appropriate shepherding of people?
(btw, I/we are not RCI)

Jac3510 wrote:excessive control of personal life by the pastoral staff, compulsory meetings, etc.)?

People that rejected the message of Jesus & Paul were quick to receive accusations against them as true. Nothing new here folks!


Ac:24:14: But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Jac3510 wrote:I think the title of the thread enough should warrant the move. It's typical of the "my church is the only true church" mentality, which is directly derived from the "restored movement" mentality common to all cults.

Can you please name the true churches?

Jac3510 wrote:Just my $.02.

I agree with that part.

If you knew what true fellowship is you would applaud this stand.

True Scottsman fallacy.

Are members of your church encouraged to read material of groups that you disagree with?
Is that appropriate shepherding of people?
(btw, I/we are not RCI)

As a matter of fact, yes, I encourage them heavily to read material with which I disagree. As far as you not being RCI, no, you are RFI, which formed from a schism with RCI over the reenstatement of sexually impure members.

People that rejected the message of Jesus & Paul were quick to receive accusations against them as true. Nothing new here folks!


Ac:24:14: But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Yes, because Jesus forced Himself on people. One of the truest marks of a cult is their authoritarian control of people's personal lives.

Can you please name the true churches?

Sure. Everyone who believes the Gospel, which you, in this thread, have denied (John 1:12).

Anyway, it was fun discussing this with you. I'm certainly not going to change you mind, and after all you've said, I have no fears that you are going to influence anyone who ever stumbles across this conversation.

Jac3510 wrote:

Can you please name the true churches?

Sure. Everyone who believes the Gospel, which you, in this thread, have denied (John 1:12).

You havn't named any!
Can you name 2 or 3 in your area?

TallMan wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:

Can you please name the true churches?

Sure. Everyone who believes the Gospel, which you, in this thread, have denied (John 1:12).

You havn't named any!
Can you name 2 or 3 in your area?

1 Co 12:27, "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it..."

John Simpson, Mary Banks, George Hederson, Susan McHugh, Jonathan Square, Melvin Johnson, John Stocker, Joyce Meyer, and the list goes on and on... and that is more than three...
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B. W. wrote: John Simpson, Mary Banks, George Hederson, Susan McHugh, Jonathan Square, Melvin Johnson, John Stocker, Joyce Meyer, and the list goes on and on... and that is more than three...

These people run true churches?
I'm from England so I only know Joyce Mayer . . how does one become a member of her church?
I've watched her meetings on TV, many of the elements God says he wants in 1 Cor. 11 - 14 were not there.

I noe you havn't listed any of what people would call "main-stream denominations".

Tall-Man

Obviously, any main line Protestant church or Catholic church won't fall into your ideaof the true church because you hold to the position of absolutel havingthe baility to speak in tongues when you are saved, that in fact, somebody unable to speak in tongues would immediately be shown to not have the Holy Spirit and therefore not be saved (although who's to say wht thesourceof the speaking and the tongues....the person faking it? the devil? demons? ). As someone has asked you already, how do you even know their not faking it?

Let's just cut to the chase....you would deem all of us here non-believers and all of the main-line Protestant church and Catholic churches to be false churches.

Yeah. I already cited Calvary Chapel twice, at least, as a large church/denomination that has many members that speak in tongues, but they do not believe it is a necessary sign of salvation. It goes flatly against Tallman's beliefs. I think the Vineyard (well, Vineyard is the church that has had a lot of weird stuff go on in the past) and the Evangelical Free Church in America are similar (Vineyard, more HS signs; EV Free, less HS signs). Those two are denominations, whereas Calvary Chapel is huge but doesn't like being called a denomination.

http://www.calvarychapel.com/
http://www.efca.org/
http://www.vineyardusa.org/site/

TallMan wrote:

B. W. wrote: John Simpson, Mary Banks, George Hederson, Susan McHugh, Jonathan Square, Melvin Johnson, John Stocker, Joyce Meyer, and the list goes on and on... and that is more than three...

These people run true churches?
I'm from England so I only know Joyce Mayer . . how does one become a member of her church?
I've watched her meetings on TV, many of the elements God says he wants in 1 Cor. 11 - 14 were not there.

I noe you havn't listed any of what people would call "main-stream denominations".

I do not mean the Joyce Meyer's who is famous but another woman of the same name - unknown. These are people who attended many churches in my location in Colorado!

Point is - We all make up the Body of Christ and each of us are individual memebers. In the bible passage cited - it goes on to tell us that not all will speak in tongues as well...
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B.W.

Thanks for clarifying the Joyce Meyer thing. You had me scared there for a minute.

But back on topic.

Where are the tares?

Where are the wolves in sheeps clothing?

The tares are among the wheat. The wolves are among the sheep. The "church," if we call it, is not identified with a "creed" or what sign in on the post outside. Jesus teaches that the REAL church will have imposters in it. Now, I would be absolutely crazy if I said the only way you could tell if your church was the "real" church was if you had charlatans in your congregation. Ridiculous. I would be misappropiating the scripture.
And sadly Tallman's church has chosen tongues as a point to determine salvation. I can only imagine the pressure children in this congregation must feel to "speak" tongues. And how many grow up faking it. And this is exactly what Paul was writing about in Corinthians. The letter is clearly a rebuke and correction for something that was wrong within the church.

jlay wrote:B.W.

Thanks for clarifying the Joyce Meyer thing. You had me scared there for a minute.

But back on topic.

Where are the tares?

Where are the wolves in sheeps clothing?

The tares are among the wheat. The wolves are among the sheep. The "church," if we call it, is not identified with a "creed" or what sign in on the post outside. Jesus teaches that the REAL church will have imposters in it. Now, I would be absolutely crazy if I said the only way you could tell if your church was the "real" church was if you had charlatans in your congregation. Ridiculous. I would be misappropiating the scripture.
And sadly Tallman's church has chosen tongues as a point to determine salvation. I can only imagine the pressure children in this congregation must feel to "speak" tongues. And how many grow up faking it. And this is exactly what Paul was writing about in Corinthians. The letter is clearly a rebuke and correction for something that was wrong within the church.

jlay wrote: . ..And sadly Tallman's church has chosen tongues as a point to determine salvation. I can only imagine the pressure children in this congregation must feel to "speak" tongues. And how many grow up faking it.

Indeed, rather than visit and see, you prefer to air your imaginations . . . which just so happen to justify what you want to believe.

jlay wrote: And this is exactly what Paul was writing about in Corinthians.

Was it??
Chapter & verse please !

I suspect this is another one of your imaginations, but I'm happy to be shown to be wrong . . .

jlay wrote:The letter is clearly a rebuke and correction for something that was wrong within the church.

Anyone who speaks english could discern that from the letter . . . but can you see from the detail what exactly was wrong?
- WHY did Paul say what he did concerning speaking in tongues?

(the answer is there without any need to add or subtract detail!)

Indeed, rather than visit and see, you prefer to air your imaginations

I visited the link you provided and have read your posts. If the information is bad then whose fault is that?

Bottom line:
In your understanding. Can one have a saving faith and NOT speak in tongues, yes or no?