Evidence for God from Science

sinnerbybirth wrote:
Who or what changed this for you?

After examining the evidence for myself and looking critically at my own beliefs and "experiences" I came to conclusion there is no evidence for a God. At least not a personal one. Of course there is no evidence for a Deist god either. One of the people that got me to examine the evidence more is actually on this site.

sinnerbybirth wrote:

Have you found it yet? Truth that is.
Just curious.

Well, I have a good idea of how the universe works. Given not a perfect understanding of even modern day sciences. But I'm more knowledgeable than I was before. As far as if i've found truth, depends on what you mean. I mean I don't have a perfect understanding, but I examine the evidence and see where it leads. So instead of truth, I'd say I've found an understanding of how things operate in the universe.

Vice wrote:
To me, I don't see any compelling evidence or arguments to believe in a God. If evidence or arguments do arise that are compelling, I will believe.

I hate to break this to you, but...you will never believe in God. You are simply not able to. If you've read Moses and the prophets and you still don't believe, you will not believe even if someone raises from the dead.

From a biblical standpoint, faith is a gift from God, it isn't something you work for by study or earn by good deeds. It isn't something you are born into either.

Maybe - if you're lucky - you will become relevant to God and he'll accept to call you his own.

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
I hate to break this to you, but...you will never believe in God. You are simply not able to. If you've read Moses and the prophets and you still don't believe, you will not believe even if someone raises from the dead.

Actually if I witnessed or it was confirmed that some one was raised from the dead, and whatever raised it from the dead said "I am the God of the Bible." then I would believe.

From a biblical standpoint, faith is a gift from God, it isn't something you work for by study or earn by good deeds. It isn't something you are born into either.

Oh so God only gives faith as a gift to what people he WANTS to go to heaven and the others can go to hell? Well that isn't the kind of God I'd worship if he were real.

Maybe - if you're lucky - you will become relevant to God and he'll accept to call you his own.

Ah so this is the God you worship. The God who says "Okay, these guys are relevant to me. The rest can suffer for eternity" Yeah. I would never worship that. Ever.

Any being that would do that doesn't deserve to be worshiped. Of course this God you describe is not the one everyone believes in usually.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
From a biblical standpoint, faith is a gift from God, it isn't something you work for by study or earn by good deeds. It isn't something you are born into either.

I dont think faith is a gift entrance to heaven/salvation is a gift but you have to open your heart and mind to God & Christ to have faith, which is something you have to find yourself in the end ..even if God does clearly show he is there one way or another; people still do deny his existence, i think God just knows who will end up coming to him.

Vice wrote:Actually if I witnessed or it was confirmed that some one was raised from the dead, and whatever raised it from the dead said "I am the God of the Bible." then I would believe.

I understand that you want to believe that. Unfortunately, this will never happen as per your requirements, so you are safe in your unbelief. I would also add that when this did happen, most refused to believe. You are, therefore, in very numerous company.

Vice wrote:Oh so God only gives faith as a gift to what people he WANTS to go to heaven and the others can go to hell? Well that isn't the kind of God I'd worship if he were real.

You are free to continue in your current condition and to blame your unbelief (and all the world's ills) on God if you wish. Again, you are in very numerous company.

In any event, you would never worship anyway because you hate God, and hate the idea of God.

Vice wrote:Any being that would do that doesn't deserve to be worshiped.

God, who gives you the liberty to believe whatever you want and to live your life however you want while advising you of the consequences doesn't deserve to be worshiped? Not very intelligent on your part...but if it works for you, who am I to question?

Vice wrote:Of course this God you describe is not the one everyone believes in usually.

Here, you are correct. I am describing the God of the Bible. You don't know him - obviously - so stick around if you're willing to find out about him.

BTW...why are you here?

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
I understand that you want to believe that. Unfortunately, this will never happen as per your requirements, so you are safe in your unbelief. I would also add that when this did happen, most refused to believe. You are, therefore, in very numerous company.

Of course you are making assumptions about me when you don't know me. My requirements are just fine. I'm sorry if I want to see tangible evidence that God exists. I mean, how could I be so stupid as to want that?

FL wrote:
You are free to continue in your current condition and to blame your unbelief (and all the world's ills) on God if you wish. Again, you are in very numerous company.

In any event, you would never worship anyway because you hate God, and hate the idea of God.

Here you are making stupid assumptions when you don't know me. You remind me of scientologists. To be quite honest.

Actually I do not hate God. Because I can't really hate what I do not believe in. As for the idea of a God, I don't hate that either.

FL wrote:
God, who gives you the liberty to believe whatever you want and to live your life however you want while advising you of the consequences doesn't deserve to be worshiped? Not very intelligent on your part...but if it works for you, who am I to question?

Ah, but this isn't the God you described. You described a God that if he deems you needed he will let you have faith in him. The others can just burn. Regardless, There is no reason to believe in said consequences.

FL wrote:
Here, you are correct. I am describing the God of the Bible. You don't know him - obviously - so stick around if you're willing to find out about him.

Oh, I've read his hit book. I've listened to his followers. Never a compelling argument out of either. I'm willing to listen and concede. Only when the evidence is in your favor.

Of course, you have this pre determined thought of me when you do not know me. You know, help me out with this one...Who said "Judge not lest you be judged" The name is at the tip of my tongue...But I can't remember. I think it was some fellow important to some religion. You know a really central part of it. Who is the one that said that again?

BTW...why are you here?

Because I want to be here and have discussion.

Vice, as far as I can tell, FL was responding to what you wrote and not just making assumptions about you.

Have you read any of the articles at the main site? You want evidence, you say, so it seems to me that you should be checking some of those articles out. Then, if you want discussion, as you say (and are not here to just tell us that we are all kind-of stupid), then why don't you bring up something related to an apologetics issue. That is, we present evidence for belief in the God of the bible and for the reliability of the bible, so, if you don't think that evidence is good enough, you could ask questions about it.

If you're here to simply say that you don't believe in God and don't want to, if you've already made up your mind and just want to flaunt your unbelief, then this discussion board is not for you.

cslewislover wrote:Vice, as far as I can tell, FL was responding to what you wrote and not just making assumptions about you.

Hm?
Assumption 1: this will never happen as per your requirements,
Assumption 2: you would never worship anyway because you hate God, and hate the idea of God.

Have you read any of the articles at the main site? You want evidence, you say, so it seems to me that you should be checking some of those articles out.

You do know there are counter arguments on the main site right?

Then, if you want discussion, as you say (and are not here to just tell us that we are all kind-of stupid),

Have I shown any signs of thinking your beliefs in a God are stupid? No. I may not see your justification for believing compelling though.

then why don't you bring up something related to an apologetics issue. That is, we present evidence for belief in the God of the bible and for the reliability of the bible, so, if you don't think that evidence is good enough, you could ask questions about it.

Well, I am responding to some threads I like to talk about first. Get a reputation around the site a bit too.

If you're here to simply say that you don't believe in God and don't want to, if you've already made up your mind and just want to flaunt your unbelief, then this discussion board is not for you.[/quote]

cslewislover wrote:Vice, as far as I can tell, FL was responding to what you wrote and not just making assumptions about you.

Correct. I find it interesting that this atheist finds it necessary to thrash about in his answers...to be like a devil bathing in holy water, so to speak!

Vice, if this is really why you are here,

Vice wrote:Because I want to be here and have discussion.

...you are missing the mark. I would go so far as to say that you are unsure what the word «discussion» means because that is not what you are having here. If you have a dictionary, look up the words discuss and discussion. Try for accuracy in the words you use.

Again, Why are you here? What brings the atheist that you are to a Christian Forum?

FL

DannyM wrote:Nope. Because it would be the correct choice.

Vice wrote:I don't see how.

Of course you don't.

DannyM wrote:If you believe the Muslims could be correct then I wish you well with that. As a Chrisitian, the Muslim faith has more flaws than the Canary Wharf building. Your question of "what if this religion is correct" is just a non-question for our purposes; when you weigh up and study each religion and each truth claim then you come to a decision. Saying "what about Islam" to me is about as pointless as you can get. It also does nothing in challenging the truth claims of Christianity.

Vice wrote:Oh, both religions have flaws sir. Both make truth claims that one can not back up(As of yet). I will get to a more related answer on this in a bit. As it ties in to the other person's response.

Such as...

DannyM wrote:Who said anything about neglecting knowledge and truth?

DannyM wrote:This appears to be a rather wooly statement. Could you clarify what you mean here as it makes no real sense. Apologies if I have missed something here.

Vice wrote:It simply means, we should follow where the evidence leads. If it leads to Christianity so be it. If it leads to Islam so be it. If it leads to Buddhism so be it.

And for most on this site the evidence leads to the truth of Christianity. So it really is over to you if you have anything to offer for Islam, Buddhism etc...

DannyM wrote:Are you an atheist? What compelling evidence do you see for nothing and chance being your makers?

Vice wrote:I don't see compelling evidence for that. Because, that is not what science says at all.

I know what science says. But ultimately your maker is nothing and chance...

Oh you know, saying the earth sits on pillars. Women are made out of a rib. Etc.

No for the most part, this site accepts Christianity. But it doesn't mean I have to disprove it. I suppose if a site accepted the "evidence" of Allah you would be convinced eh? No. You would tell them there is no reason to believe in Allah when there is your Bible or something.


I know what science says. But ultimately your maker is nothing and chance...[/quote][/quote]
Ultimately you have no idea what I believe or what you're talking about as far as this science goes.

Vice wrote:Oh you know, saying the earth sits on pillars. Women are made out of a rib. Etc.

I strongly advise you start an appropriate thread if you wish to challenge Christianity; after all, you're in the ideal place to do this...which kinda begs the question of... But I'll hold tight for a wee mo...

Vice wrote:No for the most part, this site accepts Christianity. But it doesn't mean I have to disprove it. I suppose if a site accepted the "evidence" of Allah you would be convinced eh? No. You would tell them there is no reason to believe in Allah when there is your Bible or something.

No. I would try to show the inconsistencies of Islam. So, umm, over to you...

Vice wrote:Ultimately you have no idea what I believe or what you're talking about as far as this science goes.

That's all very nice, but you need to show me where I deviate from science. Can you do this, bopper?

Oh you know, saying the earth sits on pillars. Women are made out of a rib. Etc.

Wow, really? Ever even try researching what this means?

Do you know how you feel when someone lobs an unbelievably ignorant comment about evolution and you sit there thinking "psht....really, this is all you got? A High School biology book would explain that" and you wonder why they haven't done there own research and *then* you think "oh, it's their bias and prejudice that keep them from the answers"...

Now you know how we feel...

Vice wrote:

sinnerbybirth wrote:
Who or what changed this for you?

After examining the evidence for myself and looking critically at my own beliefs and "experiences" I came to conclusion there is no evidence for a God. At least not a personal one. Of course there is no evidence for a Deist god either. One of the people that got me to examine the evidence more is actually on this site.

Hey Vice, once again, I'm just curious to what evidence have you examined? Historically speaking. Recently, this is an area I've been looking into. For myself, I have found overwhelming evidence for the existance of GOD. One thing that helped me was to have an open mind and not one sided, like I used to be. Something I would like to know is, have you set out to prove or disprove that there is a GOD?

Vice wrote:

sinnerbybirth wrote:

Have you found it yet? Truth that is.
Just curious.

Well, I have a good idea of how the universe works. Given not a perfect understanding of even modern day sciences. But I'm more knowledgeable than I was before. As far as if i've found truth, depends on what you mean. I mean I don't have a perfect understanding, but I examine the evidence and see where it leads. So instead of truth, I'd say I've found an understanding of how things operate in the universe.

Is there the slightest possibility you may be wrong? What I mean is, have you ever looked at how scientific theories morph or change. Latest one in debate by the scientific world body is Global Warming.

You seem to be very convinced that GOD doesn't exist. If this is the case, why would you come to a christian forum and try to convince people otherwise? If we are wrong in our thinking then there is no harm done when we die. But, If you are wrong in are thinking then there will be hell to pay (No pun intended).
Like I said, I'm just curious to see what evidence you've found against a Creator or GOD.
Thanks Again

sinnerbybirth wrote:

You seem to be very convinced that GOD doesn't exist. If this is the case, why would you come to a christian forum and try to convince people otherwise? If we are wrong in our thinking then there is no harm done when we die. But, If you are wrong in are thinking then there will be hell to pay (No pun intended).
Like I said, I'm just curious to see what evidence you've found against a Creator or GOD.
Thanks Again

A blunt reminder of Pascal's Wager. Surely nobody would even want to argue with this post...