Evidence for God from Science

I am not saying there is or isn't life on other planets, In fact, are you saying there is or is not a God? Or are you open to the idea of a God. What I am saying is if you are an evolutionist who claims not to believe in God, how can you believe in the possibility of life outside of our solar system. It seems to me that is believing in something that exists outside of our solar system, which we have no idea how that would look or act, is just as plausible as believing in God. I mean if evolution exists than why not a higher conscience being evolving. I am saying that evolutionists imply mixed messages. I don't need to know whether there is life on other planets to decide whether there is a God or not, because there is enough evidence besides that which is suffice. If there is not life on other planets, well than I am also convinced. I believe either way.

robyn hill wrote:I am not saying there is or isn't life on other planets, In fact, are you saying there is or is not a God? Or are you open to the idea of a God. What I am saying is if you are an evolutionist who claims not to believe in God, how can you believe in the possibility of life outside of our solar system. It seems to me that is believing in something that exists outside of our solar system, which we have no idea how that would look or act, is just as plausible as believing in God. I mean if evolution exists than why not a higher conscience being evolving. I am saying that evolutionists imply mixed messages. I don't need to know whether there is life on other planets to decide whether there is a God or not, because there is enough evidence besides that which is suffice. If there is not life on other planets, well than I am also convinced. I believe either way.

Robyn - I'm not saying there is a god or there isn't a god; I'm an atheist and agnostic, although I lean towards Ignosticism.

I didn't say that it was impossible for a higher intelligence to evolve, just that it was impossible for that higher intelligence to become god (depending on your definition of god...given that most posited gods are described as playing a role in creating the universe, they can't have evolved in the universe they created).

Touching Cloth, I don't know if God evolved in this universe, as I don't know what is outside of this universe. I am suggesting that evolution somewhere in this universe, or outside of it, could easily be considered possible according to evolutionary standards.When you say a God coudn't have evolved in a universe he created you are assuming perameters in uncharted territory. We don't know what is out side of our universe, infact to say outside is absurd since it assumes shape. Again, to say it can't happen is speaking about something we can't understand. In other words, we don't know what is ouside the limits of our telescope so to put limitations on that to me is presumptuous.

robyn hill wrote:Touching Cloth, I don't know if God evolved in this universe, as I don't know what is outside of this universe. I am suggesting that evolution somewhere in this universe, or outside of it, could easily be considered possible according to evolutionary standards.When you say a God coudn't have evolved in a universe he created you are assuming perameters in uncharted territory. We don't know what is out side of our universe, infact to say outside is absurd since it assumes shape. Again, to say it can't happen is speaking about something we can't understand. In other words, we don't know what is ouside the limits of our telescope so to put limitations on that to me is presumptuous.

In other words we should bank on what we do know.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... vkUTOJwTlw

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... MKLrHsZmnf

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... zxRQNZm15U

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 60&start=0

http://www.godandscience.org/love/outra ... fP0oTa5hvL

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... sHQP9Xl182

To say the God of our universe coudn't have evolved in the same universe he created is like saying we couldn't have created the country we live in since the land was here before we were. I am not saying this is what I believe I am just pointing out a logical fallacy.

robyn hill wrote:To say the God of our universe coudn't have evolved in the same universe he created is like saying we couldn't have created the country we live in since the land was here before we were. I am not saying this is what I believe I am just pointing out a logical fallacy.

It's more like saying a daughter can't have given birth to her mother.

robyn hill wrote:To say the God of our universe coudn't have evolved in the same universe he created is like saying we couldn't have created the country we live in since the land was here before we were. I am not saying this is what I believe I am just pointing out a logical fallacy.

Are you a Mormon Robyn?

Robyn, those views would be counter biblical.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Malachi 3:6 - "For I am the Lord, I change not;
Deuteronomy 33:27 The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.
Ps. 90: 2 from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Ps. 93: 2 established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

He exist outside of the universe:
Isa. 40:12-13
Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,
or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?
Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket,
or weighed the mountains on the scales
and the hills in a balance? Who has understood the mind of the LORD,
or instructed him as his counselor?

I am expressing my beliefs that there is logic in believing in a God. I am not trying to do it from a biblical point of view, I am trying to explain that in my opinion, other views that try and disprove God seem to have so many contradictions. Some believe that what is true for our earth, must be true for the universe. God is not bound by the same laws that govern out planet.

robyn hill wrote:Also, Touching cloth, do you really think it is another coincidence that we can build the technology we have with the same materials we started out with? Doesn't that seem a wee remarkable?

It's not at all remarkable; your logic is backwards. We do what we can with the resources available to us. An African tribe might live in the jungle, so they build their schools out of wood and clay; in the UK, we're more likely to use steel and reinforced concrete. If we'd been provided with different materials, we'd build our technology differently!

See, that is what cracks me up about atheists. The fact that you credit man for building amazing technology with material we didn't create! I don't see how a random universe could give us materials, except perhaps goo, that would enable us to use our minds, I guess another coincidence, and we can put them together and create the amazing things we have today! In fact, I don't think we would be around if we didn't have the technology today. Again, proof to an intelligence that thought ahead when planning our suitcase if you will, to survive this long. I just can't, with reasoning, view this as just another, really cool, fortunate, coincidence. Now, show me another planet with crazy unidentifiable technology and beings with advancements that match and utilize their resources, and I will rethink my position.

I do see where you are coming from manofscience, but just too many fortunate arrangements that enable us to fly, talk to others across the world, watch a video from a credit card sized set, travel to space, etc.

robyn hill wrote:I don't see how a random universe could give us materials, except perhaps goo, that would enable us to use our minds, I guess another coincidence, and we can put them together and create the amazing things we have today!

We evolved right here on Earth, so of course we've achieved all we've achieved using the materials available here. What else could we have used?!

I can see where you're coming from, too, but your logic is flawed: it's not that the resources we have are perfect for our needs*; it's that we've learnt to make use of the resources we have.

* If this were the case, we'd have cure-all medicine mines alongside the coal and tin mines.

your logic is flawed: it's not that the resources we have are perfect for our needs*; it's that we've learnt to make use of the resources we have.

and it is at this point where we disagree, see to you my logic is flawed, but you are not God to decide what theory on the origin of universe is logical or flawed, as you weren't there, or any other human for that matter. Nor can you determine why the materials were put on our earth and to what means they serve. However, I can say one thing with the utmost certainty, if there is a God, which is the only rational choice after discussing the entire hodge podge of coincidence, I think he will be siding with me.

ManOfScience wrote:

robyn hill wrote:I don't see how a random universe could give us materials, except perhaps goo, that would enable us to use our minds, I guess another coincidence, and we can put them together and create the amazing things we have today!

We evolved right here on Earth, so of course we've achieved all we've achieved using the materials available here. What else could we have used?!

I can see where you're coming from, too, but your logic is flawed: it's not that the resources we have are perfect for our needs*; it's that we've learnt to make use of the resources we have.

* If this were the case, we'd have cure-all medicine mines alongside the coal and tin mines.

Don't forget, we are equipped with brains as to how to get medicine too!