Re: When were you saved?
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:07 am
Tallman,
All you've done here is build a house of cards which circle back to a concept that you're imposing upon the word of God and which the Word of God (Christ) never taught nor which Paul directly taught. Tongues in the Scripture are clearly taught as a sign to the unbeliever and you have twisted it to make it a sign to the believer, and not only that but a sign that you extend to an issue of salvation itself!
Do you imagine that tongues are a clear sign of the work of the Holy Spirit in all cases? Is there no counterfeit? Are tongues not humanly or demonically replicable. Can you tell the difference? If not, then what purpose or sign does tongues serve in terms of an external sign to demonstrate an internal reality.
Let me ask you some plain questions in relation to your beliefs in this and other areas.
1. What is your belief with regard to those who have not evidenced tongues with regard to salvation? Is anyone who doesn't conform to your progression of experience unsaved, condemned and going to hell?
2. What is you belief in terms of water baptism. Is water baptism required for salvation? Does salvation take place at the time of water baptism? If so, then must tongues be evidenced at the time of water baptism as well?
3. Is baptism to be performed in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or in the name of Jesus only.
4. What do you believe with regard to the Trinity? Is Jesus a part of the Godhead, co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit who are one and yet 3 persons?
5. How do you explain the absence of your teaching in the writings of the Church Fathers? If the inferences you claim were true why would they not be written and taught by the direct disciples of the apostles who sat at the feet of Christ and were present themselves at Pentecost? Does it mean anything to you that there is no clear evidence of your teaching in that early church or that the closest attempts to approximate it after the fact have to be drawn from the Montanists, a heretical sect that separated themselves from the direct teachings and traditions of the apostles?
If you're so inclined you can answer the question as well that prompted this exchange that you have yet to address despite my keeping my side of your proposed bargain to answer your questions before you would provide your scriptural evidence of Paul's speaking in tongues as a sign at the time of his salvation. How about it?
bart
All you've done here is build a house of cards which circle back to a concept that you're imposing upon the word of God and which the Word of God (Christ) never taught nor which Paul directly taught. Tongues in the Scripture are clearly taught as a sign to the unbeliever and you have twisted it to make it a sign to the believer, and not only that but a sign that you extend to an issue of salvation itself!
Do you imagine that tongues are a clear sign of the work of the Holy Spirit in all cases? Is there no counterfeit? Are tongues not humanly or demonically replicable. Can you tell the difference? If not, then what purpose or sign does tongues serve in terms of an external sign to demonstrate an internal reality.
Let me ask you some plain questions in relation to your beliefs in this and other areas.
1. What is your belief with regard to those who have not evidenced tongues with regard to salvation? Is anyone who doesn't conform to your progression of experience unsaved, condemned and going to hell?
2. What is you belief in terms of water baptism. Is water baptism required for salvation? Does salvation take place at the time of water baptism? If so, then must tongues be evidenced at the time of water baptism as well?
3. Is baptism to be performed in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or in the name of Jesus only.
4. What do you believe with regard to the Trinity? Is Jesus a part of the Godhead, co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit who are one and yet 3 persons?
5. How do you explain the absence of your teaching in the writings of the Church Fathers? If the inferences you claim were true why would they not be written and taught by the direct disciples of the apostles who sat at the feet of Christ and were present themselves at Pentecost? Does it mean anything to you that there is no clear evidence of your teaching in that early church or that the closest attempts to approximate it after the fact have to be drawn from the Montanists, a heretical sect that separated themselves from the direct teachings and traditions of the apostles?
If you're so inclined you can answer the question as well that prompted this exchange that you have yet to address despite my keeping my side of your proposed bargain to answer your questions before you would provide your scriptural evidence of Paul's speaking in tongues as a sign at the time of his salvation. How about it?
bart
