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Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:27 pm
by A Y323
Imperial wrote:So if God can be eternal, why can't the universe? What if the Universe and the very first organisms are the real eternal ones?
If the very first organisms were eternal, that would mean they'd still be here today. Where are they? Can you show them to me? Also, the universe can not be eternal because it had a beginning (the big bang). And I've already gone over why the point of singularity that resulted in the big bang couldn't have been eternal.
Imperial wrote:Evolution is a highly possible. Why can't the very first eternal organisms evolve and get more complexed based on their living enviornments?
Here you are saying that the very first organisms were eternal, but evolved into what we are today. Clearly we are not eternal (in this life). How is going from eternal to not eternal an evolutionary gain?
Imperial wrote:How is it more believable that there was an entity that was eternal instead that already knew how to make everything work. What kind of mouths to give us, what our source of energy would be. Its unlikely that an eternal being could get it without seeing ane example, however according to Christianity, god had none since he created everything (therefore he was there before anything else was). However evolution gradually changes organisms based on living conditions, allowing the organisms body to get more sophisticated.
This does not apply at all. God is all-knowing. He knows
everything. Why would an all-knowing being need to look at an example to get it right? You claim to hold so strongly to logic, but all I see in this argument is a complete lack of logic.
Imperial wrote:^ this is all theoretical of course, but i think i've made a point.
I don't see any "point" in those arguments. The only thing I see is someone desperately grasping for any sort of argument he can find, no matter how irrational.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:36 pm
by Imperial
If the very first organisms were eternal, that would mean they'd still be here today. Where are they? Can you show them to me? Also, the universe can not be eternal because it had a beginning (the big bang). And I've already gone over why the point of singularity that resulted in the big bang couldn't have been eternal.
Maybe they are, we don't know what they are, kinda like how you dont know 100% what god actually IS. Can you show me god? This wasn't supposed to be a well thought out theory
this was just an example to show there could just as easily be some sort of other belief. You already took the easiest one... One God who made everything but we can't see him for SEVERAL reasons. This is basically a theory that makes it so we have no way of actually seeing or prooving that God is real, but since there are all these "reasons" why we can't verify that he's there, you don't HAVE to prove anything - that is why this argument is sooooooooooo easy for you.
How about this:
What if there is a large society of supernatural beings that created everything, instead of there being one god. What if these beings are on the earth today, but half in another realm in a way that we can't sense that they are there, but they can still follow us around, control our thoughts, make us act in certain ways and give us ideas. What if we're just like somthing they can mess around with for fun since they're all powerful? Can you prove THIS wrong???
^ Still theoretical (made up in seriously like 2 minutes)...
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:38 pm
by August
So you have now abandoned all claims of reason or attempts at logic and rational arguments?
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:47 pm
by Imperial
August wrote:So you have now abandoned all claims of reason or attempts at logic and rational arguments?
LOGICAL FALLACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
no jk
lol... Dude i don't really care anymore - we'll never reach a solution that everyone will be happy with. I'm going to live my life the way i want to live it. I believe i'm a good person, i think about others in my life before myself a lot. I also am still friends with my Christian friend (we avoid talking religion). I've never had a real enemy in my entire life or got into any fights since i'm not violent. I did not become this kind of person through religion, i did so out of common sense, and so far everythings running smoothly. Religion is pointless and unnecessary IMO. So there ya go.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:50 pm
by August
So abandoned then.
Imperial wrote: Religion is pointless and unnecessary IMO. So there ya go.
What happens when you die?
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:51 pm
by Imperial
What happens when you die?
When a person dies, all their organs shut down including the brain and their bodies decompose. >.> Biology ftw?
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:09 pm
by Gman
Imperial wrote:Religion is pointless and unnecessary IMO. So there ya go.
Atheism is just like any other religion... Although it doesn't claim a belief of a deity, you still haven't denied the concept of authority. We are all religious in that sense...
Which get's back to the fact that your religion is pointless and unnecessary..
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:15 pm
by Imperial
Which get's back to the fact that your religion is pointless and unnecessary..
As is yours
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:09 pm
by zoegirl
And thus EVERY system of ethics is equal and no one can judge the rapist, the murderer or thief.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:10 pm
by jlay
I'm going to live my life the way i want to live it. I believe i'm a good person, i think about others in my life before myself a lot.
Ah hah. And so we get to the real gist of the matter.
-I want to live the way I want! A god with a moral code as the one in the bible certainly would put a damper on that. Could it be that God doesn't fit you because His moral standard is a big ole wet blanket on how you want to live your life?
-I believe I'm a good person. Text book. This is called self-justification. Bottom line is this says, "all that gunk I said about logic and reason, forget it." So you are a good person. Who cares? If there is no god as you claim, then what is good? You don't even beleive in an objective standard by which to measure your own goodness. This is a common pitfall of those whose minds are at war with God. They want to be viewed as good, but have to speak out of both sides of their mouth to claim any measure of goodness.
-You think about other people? Agian, so what? If there is no objective standard of morality, then why do you keep living as if there were one? If you want to impress us, stop being a hypocrite and live consistently with your world view. Or, perhaps your premise is faulty. Maybe you should change your premise.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:17 pm
by jlay
So if God can be eternal, why can't the universe? What if the Universe and the very first organisms are the real eternal ones?
To come to that conclusion you would have to reject the information and laws we know.
The reason science doesn't embrace this notion is that it does not comply with the natural laws, and the observable evidence we have today.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:53 pm
by Imperial
Dude i don't really care anymore - we'll never reach a solution that everyone will be happy with. I'm going to live my life the way i want to live it. I believe i'm a good person, i think about others in my life before myself a lot. I also am still friends with my Christian friend (we avoid talking religion). I've never had a real enemy in my entire life or got into any fights since i'm not violent. I did not become this kind of person through religion, i did so out of common sense, and so far everythings running smoothly. Religion is pointless and unnecessary IMO. So there ya go.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:44 pm
by cslewislover
Imperial wrote:Dude i don't really care anymore - we'll never reach a solution that everyone will be happy with. I'm going to live my life the way i want to live it. I believe i'm a good person, i think about others in my life before myself a lot. I also am still friends with my Christian friend (we avoid talking religion). I've never had a real enemy in my entire life or got into any fights since i'm not violent. I did not become this kind of person through religion, i did so out of common sense, and so far everythings running smoothly. Religion is pointless and unnecessary IMO. So there ya go.
You say you're a good person, but so far you've been quite rude. So, I wouldn't get too excited about your self assessment. The humanists I've heard from all say the same thing. "I'm a good person, and I can be a moral person without religion." So what? People who seek the meaning of life are usually ones who believe we're more than flesh and blood. It's about the soul, if you believe in one, and what comes after our physical body dies. If you don't believe in that at all, or aren't thinking you are seeking information about this, then there is no reason for you to be here. You are being verbally abusive, IMO, and so there's no need to try and keep impressing us with your goodness, or, with your being able to draw rational conclusions since you don't want to discuss any pertinent information.
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:15 pm
by Gman
You could be the nicest, best person with good works in the world and you still wouldn't be saved... Good works mean nothing to God without the redemption Christ... Ephesians 2:8-9.
Which makes Christianity the most unique religion, even above the atheistic religion...
Re: The Amazing Atheist
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:27 am
by CeT-To
Athiests trying to find God is like robbers trying to find cops HAHAH sorry
couldnt help it. Oh and imperial why are you still on this site if you aren't looking for answers? you aren't fooling anybody. Shouldn't you be living out your morally good life and not waste your time here then?
