The Story of Everything - Stephen Hawking

[Facundo]

Yeah, christians tend to do that, and it's only natural you think that way. The concept's also called witch hunt, scientific prosecution, holocaust, etc.

Oh dear, we have another one ...

Did you even stop to read what that user wrote? Perhaps think about it critically?

[zoegirl]

Facundo,

You might want to read over our Discussion Board guidelines before you go any further.

1. Right now, they have not been able to show that any sort of basic cell forms under conditions such as those proposed for early earth. At most, they have shown that some very basic organic molecules can form from some very strict conditions (and basic is an understatement), RNA can self-assemble and act as enzymes, and membranes can self-assemble (although this is hardly a surprise since their very chemistry would cause them to do so). No self-replicating membrane bound organism as yet has been made. (And for the record, why would this disprove the existence of God were they to do so??? All they would successfully show is that life requires some very strict conditions to be designed....a recipe, if you will, a...oh my goodness....a design!!

2. You have some awfully bizarre ideas of creationism if you suppose that it is simply the same as "pulling it out of a hat" and it reveal ignorance on your part. You want to come here and blast everyone for being ignorant and yet you reveal your very own ignorance in some very typical atheist rants about what they think Christianity and creationism is about.

3. And for the record, Christian values does not exclude pointing out fallacies in a person's thinking. Do you suppose we would simply roll over and wag our tails and lick your hands for your ignorant ideas about Christians?!?!??!

1. So we've succesfully formed aminoacides and phospholypids, the basic structures of cells. Self-replicating RNA's not too far away and membranes spontanteously assemble. And we did all that in a 4 months experiment. Is it a leap to say, that even if the event itself is improbable it could potentially happen lots of times, given a million years?

Aminoacides were even found on comets, so an aminoacid supply could have fallen from the sky at one point in the history of earth meteor rain. And you're basically arguing that unsupervised abiogenesis doesn't prove god exists, while saying it's specific nature of formation implies god exists. Quite a contradiction there :/

No, I'm saying 1) we haven't proven *anything* yet but 2) even if we did all we would be showing if there were very strict requirements for it to happen...ie a design.

2. Explain to me, then, the rational creation process of man according to creationism. Last time I checked, god wished for it. Awesome, all-explaining theory that is.

would it do any good? It doesn't seem like you are here for any reason other than to argue. again, please read our discussion guideline and board purpose.

3. Well if you were so sure your ideas are the right ones, you could simply "wait for me to be ready to embrace (insert random religion concept)", or you could try and "help me", knowing that I'm going to hell and all that bullcrap. But instead, you choose to direct ad hominem attacks, avoid my arguments and ask me for proving negatives. You don't follow your own religion precepts of love and compassion. Christians = Hypocrites.

Again, would it do any good? You have obviously made up your mind. all Christians are idiots, all Christians are ignorant, and all Christians are hypocrites...oh and let's not forget that we're not compassionate and lob ad hominem attacks. Let's see have I forgotten anything here?

Let's just trot out the ol' atheist stand-by's here...hmm...
1) religion is the source of all strife and evil in the world (and of course Christianity is the top of the list)
2) No one can be a rational person and be a Christian
3) If God were truly there, he would heal all of the amputees!!!
4) And of course the Bible is full of contradictions and stupid stories....hey a talking donkey!!

Of course the amazing thing is that we would be willing to explain things to you. we have been know to be very patient, very willing to engage in discourse....to those who are willing ot be rational and civil and follow the Board guidelines. You obviously are not here to do that. If you are not here to honestly seek answers and listen to our "bull..." then you would best be served by going elsewhere.

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... f=6&t=2517

[DannyM]

Hawkings used the word "accident" refering to an improbable event, something perhaps you didn't quite get. Given millions of years, any improbable event will happen at least once. And that's how life emerged. Chemistry laws permit it.

There you go! Wasn't so hard was it? Oh, you looked for the word miracle? Gotta learn to read better eh? =)

Yes!! And I've already asked you to substantiate "such a wild statement"...? Show me the empiricism for this claim...

When you are born, you don't believe in deities. Babies are atheists.

You cannot be an atheist if you have not made an informed decision based on the evaluation of evidence. Do you get it now? Have things got that bad that you are now recruiting babies? Atheism is the belief in no god. Can a baby be an atheist? Agnosticism says we cannot know if there is a god. Can a baby really come to such a conclusion?

[Personal gods require rationalizations and explanations (specifically as to WHY THEY DON'T SHOW THEMSELVES IN ANY WAY). The absence of belief in them is only natural, because there's no good reason to believe.

Yep, and belief in chance as the cause of the universe requires the oxymoron of an irrational "rationalisation," of which any sensible thinking baby would probably shy away from.

Back to this-

And talking of indoctrination, at what age were you indoctrinated into atheism?

Well?

[Facundo]

facundo, please read through the board purpose and discussion guidelines. We are primarily a Christian board and are willing to tolerate atheists who are willing to discuss while treading carefully.

We are willing to "tolerate atheists" who are willing to discuss while "treading carefully".

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

Some months ago, the pope asked for 5 years of prison against a comedian who "blasphemed" against him.

And that's the justice christians believe in.

[DannyM]

Yeah, christians tend to do that, and it's only natural you think that way. The concept's also called witch hunt, scientific prosecution, holocaust, etc.

Oh dear, we have another one ...

Did you even stop to read what that user wrote? Perhaps think about it critically?

Critically? What would you like me to criticise? Show me an empirical claim and I'll criticise it right now...

[zoegirl]

facundo, please read through the board purpose and discussion guidelines. We are primarily a Christian board and are willing to tolerate atheists who are willing to discuss while treading carefully.

We are willing to "tolerate atheists" who are willing to discuss while "treading carefully".

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

Some months ago, the pope asked for 5 years of prison against a comedian who "blasphemed" against him.

And that's the justice christians believe in.

Bye-bye

there are plenty of debate boards who are willing to waste time with someone who had already made of their mind.

[Gman]

Nice christian retort.

Saying "bull" is is a non-Christian slur? Ok I'll say it this way then... Bull.

You need instructions to build a modern cell, but not for a primordial one. You seem to confuse those two.

Oh, so now you say you do need instructions.. Not for a primordial one huh? Ok then show us how you build a cell out of primordial soup.. Don't be bashful.

There's lot of solid facts and evidence, such as aminoacides already in comets going near earth. MOUNTAINS of evidence actually, but it's nothing a christian would read anyway, would it?

Mountains of evidence? There is none.. And you have beautifully confirmed that for us by not revealing any of it.. You can't.

Also I see that you believe in panspermia. Why do you have to go outside earth to find an answer? Also amino acids do not create the potential for life. The 1953 experiments of Stanley Miller clearly revealed that.. The availability of traces of amino acids does not suggest that life can emerge via either chance or law processes. It has never been proven..

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... zSEr0xrllQ

If you grant credibility to microevolution and acknowledge population bottlenecks have happened, you're granting credibility to macroevolution. They are not separate.

Not at all.. The ability for an organism to adapt to it's environment via mirco-evolution does not prove macro-evolution. It only proves adaptability. You seem to be confusing the two.. Show me where a single cell can magically transform it's self into a human and then we will talk. At this point, no one even with all the ingredients in the world can reproduce a single molecule let alone a cell.

This is not science... It's speculation..

Your questions can be answered by Wikipedia and 30 minutes of source-checking. If you think you can't do that, or you think you're important enough to deserve someone to chew it all for you and explain it... You are deluded either way.

You seem to confuse a theory with a hunch. You should read more about aminoacides and phospholypids (hint: it's not in the bible).

It's just speculation... And unfortunately you fell for it hook line and sinker and made it your fact of life.. Too bad and such a waste.

Science's not about certainty, it's about the search for it. Religion's ALL about certainty. That's where the problem lies.

Really? Not the way you are taking it.. You are calling it your fact, your reality with it's mountain of evidence... You have given all your authority to your science, your god...

Where God is rejected, nature is simply the product of chance and of chaos, there is no purpose, no design plan, we are simply confronted with a world of bruit factuality. And what is bruit factuality? If there is no God there is no design plan, no preexisting relationship between the facts of your experience. You are simply creating an illusion for yourself when you look at the world. There is no real meaning to it but your own. How sad..

So far, natural effects can explain everything around us. Even if they didn't right now, it doesn't mean that one day they won't, and that we should believe in baseless religion stories.

A harsh truth's better than a comforting lie.

This is quite funny... Can the natural world be explained and understood only in natural terms? If so, then we must have some indication that it is possible. As an example if one was to look at the brain, how would one conclude that there was consciousness? If you looked at a chemical process in the brain could you find what someone said that day or a book that they might have read?

You can't... Sorry you backed the wrong horse..

[Telstra Robs]

Facundo, do you understand what we believe? Do you wish to know our beliefs? Do you wish to know what we as Christians believe? For you don't seem to understand our beliefs.

If so, arguement is not the way to go. I suggest you ask. If you want to know what we believe regarding God and science, ask. Many things about Christian belief, Christian science and Christians in general you have assumed. Instead of generalising and following stereotypes, you would do better finding facts about Christians from Christians. Try something like this:

"Hello,

I am unsure as to what Christian belief is or what Christians think about science. Could you please |(A)tell me what you think about God and science?|(B)answer these questions (list questions you would like to be answered)|.

Thankyou,

Facundo."

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Facundo is an excellent example of someone whose heart is hardened at the very mention of God. Look closely and you'll see his heart hardening as he posts on this topic, successive posts becoming more and more bitter. Pay attention and see the hate and contempt he expresses on matters of Christian faith.

FL

[zoegirl]

he's gone

[coldblood]

Stephen Hawking should be intelligent enough to know that the universe did not come from nothing; that only nothing can come from nothing. And, random chance could never account for a creature as complex as a human.

Had Doctor Hawking studied his Bible he would know that it was God who just happened to exist, and that He created the universe out of nothing.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

he's gone

OK...if the 11th Doctor comes back someone could suggest he re-read Facundo's posts. The 11th Dr. was asking about Pharaoh's heart being hardened and Facundo's posts are a good example of someone's heart hardening before our eyes.

FL

[Gman]

Yeah, christians tend to do that, and it's only natural you think that way. The concept's also called witch hunt, scientific prosecution, holocaust, etc.

When all else fails... Sometimes you have to play the victim too..

As for someone comparing themselves or the beliefs to the Jewish holocaust.. Is not only inaccurate, but very unfair and rude.

[DannyM]

Yeah, christians tend to do that, and it's only natural you think that way. The concept's also called witch hunt, scientific prosecution, holocaust, etc.

When all else fails... Sometimes you have to play the victim too..

As for someone comparing themselves or the beliefs to the Jewish holocaust.. Is not only inaccurate, but very unfair and rude.

When I saw the above from Facundo, I thought, Oh dear, here we go again...Galileo is surely gonna get a mention any second now...

[DannyM]

Any attempt at a theory of everything must in the end turn out to be a theory of nothing. Stephen Hawking is very good, but he's also very mischievous & likes the limelight...The wee rascal...