Evidence for God from Science

Canuckster1127 wrote:Yes. In my defense, I'm 6' 5" but that's a pretty weak defense. I was 185 lbs when I got married. I have some physical reasons I can offer as an excuse in the aftermath of cancer surgery when I was 23 which impacts my metabolism. But in the end, I'm without excuse. My eating habits are terrible and I am killing myself with the way I am treating my body. I'll look at the book you suggest. I've heard of it and I have to do something. God loves me unconditionally, but I'm not honoring Him by my lack of control and unwillingness to change in this area. I'm not proud of that.

Oh yes... God loves us despite our shortcomings.. But I have a hard time seeing overeating as a sin.

By the way, speaking of sins, did I ever confess to you that I had a problem with pornography? Many years Bart. It nearly destroyed me... But God cured me of it.. Not totally obviously (in my mind) but MUCH better. God can help... It's a sin just like all the other sexual sins.. If not worse.

Darn this post went to the top...

Gluttony is mentioned prominently in many of the same passages that refer to homosexual behavior. If some churches became as serious in the US about addressing that problem, in their own church, never mind society at large (pun intended!) as they are homosexuality can you imagine what would happen? I might not have to worry about being asked to leave an Institutional Church for my views on some issues relating to Church structure and authority. I might be sent out with an apple in my mouth and told to lose some weight before showing up again. That's not all that different than what some churches and Christians do to gays, and it's wrong.

I appreciate your courage in confessing what you did here. I've had similar struggles. In fact, if you look at the statistics in our country, there are very few men, including pastors and church leaders who haven't struggled with that for at least a season in their life, or if they haven't who may very well in the future. It's rampant in our society and the ease of access on the internet only adds to the illusion of privacy and safety of this as a private sin.

I'm sensitive to the tone, intended or not, that we as Christians send out when we talk about sin. We're forgiven based on God's grace not our self-perceived merit before God. When we speak of sin, we need to be careful that we don't adopt the attitude of the Pharisee that Jesus described in His parable, compared to the tax collector who recognized His total need for forgiveness and didn't look down his nose at those other "sinners."

So G .... we're both sinners and our sin is no less offensive to God than anyone else's no matter what we think is better or worse. Better we talk about "us" sinners and stand with everyone else in need of God's grace than to take the position of "those" sinners and appear to be pointing the finger as if we're not.

Just wanted to say i thought this was a very well written post

This is a perfect example to what i am talking about and truly does apply to this topic. This is a real life true story which happened a few years back.

There was a sister in Christ who had one mission in her heart and that was to go after the very heart of God. She was so inlove with God and it showed very much within her and every place she went people asked what it was that made her so happy for they could feel something and was drawn unto it.

The church loved her and from the pastor down to the elders adored her and marveled At how much God there was in her. They had her speak alot unto the church and every one seemed to want her prayers and help. She was loved and they all spoke of how much God shined through her and used her in her every day life.

Then one day she began to feel a tug at her heart to get up and speak unto the church about something and even though she really did NOT want to speak about this one thing she loved God too much to not be obediant unto Him so she spoke.

Now then as she began to speak people were excited and expectant and praises rung out unto God. Then came the time to get to the meat of the speaking and as she stood there in the Glory of God pouring out her heart the church fell silent and then after a short time murmers and comments were heard all over the church.

The entire church turned on her from the pastor down to the elders and the members did so as well. They began to confess that she was evil and an abomination of God and had no God in her what so ever and was living a lie and living decieved.

All it took for the entire church to go from seeing God shine in and through her unto shunning her and banning her from ever stepping foot in thier church was this one little thing.

She spoke of how she was a Transsexual and had srs and was told she really was a boy !!

Now I ask you this.....did God up and leave her that day or did Jesus get booted out right along side of her?

Something people dont understand because it is out side of tradition and religion, the things society continues to push on people from the day that they are born limmits man to dwell with a preset box and everything that does not make sence, well shun it or destreoy it or kill it.

Now then I wonder what we will think when we stand Alone before God and see those we cast out sitting there on His lap. ouch.

Lots of love in Christ
In His Grip
~Jami~

Telstra Robs wrote:If a non Christian person goes under gender reassignment surgery and then later on converts to become a Christian, should that person continue living as their new gender? What should they do?

If I were such a person I would keep going as I was, unless God told me otherwise. It most certainly would not effect your relationship with God, unless you let it.

Canuckster1127 wrote: I'm sensitive to the tone, intended or not, that we as Christians send out when we talk about sin. We're forgiven based on God's grace not our self-perceived merit before God. When we speak of sin, we need to be careful that we don't adopt the attitude of the Pharisee that Jesus described in His parable, compared to the tax collector who recognized His total need for forgiveness and didn't look down his nose at those other "sinners."

So G .... we're both sinners and our sin is no less offensive to God than anyone else's no matter what we think is better or worse. Better we talk about "us" sinners and stand with everyone else in need of God's grace than to take the position of "those" sinners and appear to be pointing the finger as if we're not.

Bart thanks...

Yes, I think you bring a valid point. I think however in the words of Christ that He still wanted us to identify sin and stop sin in our lives, John 5:14, John 8:11. Not that we will totally defeat it, that isn't what I'm saying, but at least fight for what is right.

These other verses also came to mind..

Ephesians 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

2 Corinthians 13:5-6 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.

Colossians 3:5-8 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

James 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Lamentations 3:40 Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the LORD.

Galatians 6:3-5 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load.

Psalm 139:23-24 Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. 24 See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

But doing this with the attitude that we are not superior to others who also struggle in the same area. Not to use it as a baseball bat on people.. Just being aware of sin.

At least that is how I see it.. I know that I'm not perfect either..

I understand. All these passages are in the context of (at least the NT ones) believers relating to one another within the context of a local fellowship or believers who are being encouraged to examine themselves and move forward and grow in the faith. It's not in any way that I can see, suggesting that people need to clean themselves before they present themselves to God or receive Christ.

As I've said before, I'm not suggesting that sin isn't real or serious or that we aren't encouraged or even commanded to eschew behaviors as we grow in that grace. My point is that I think we need to understand that many passages that speak of these types of issues are speaking outside of salvation and that the "kingdom of God" is usually not referring to salvation or heaven. There's only one need that anyone has at first and that is Jesus Christ. I fear at times, whether intentional or not, the message we send to people or that they hear anyway is that gays or whatever other category we wish to place people in are particularly heinous and God has to order up as it were an instant measure of additional grace to receive them as opposed to people who are more "acceptable sinners", like us.

God meets us where we are and change is a process that takes place in many instances over a lifetime. Further, conviction of sin in a person's life is first and foremost a work of the Holy Spirit and I don't think He needs our help in that department when it comes to focusing upon others. We're to look first to ourselves and then to others, keeping in mind the beam that might exist in our own eye that keeps us from seeing the speck in other's in perspective.

My thoughts anyway.

Canuckster1127 wrote:I understand. All these passages are in the context of (at least the NT ones) believers relating to one another within the context of a local fellowship or believers who are being encouraged to examine themselves and move forward and grow in the faith. It's not in any way that I can see, suggesting that people need to clean themselves before they present themselves to God or receive Christ.

Yes, because if that were true we would all be doomed. But I think when we examine our hearts and see our sins, it just makes us rely on Him more. A repentance.

I forgot to add, what about tithing? I don't do that either.. Am I doomed?

Well, as I believe tithing is Old Covenant ... No. But you follow your own conscience.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Well, as I believe tithing is Old Covenant ... No. But you follow your own conscience.

All 10 percent of it..

His lil warrior girl wrote: ...banning her from... thier church...

That is exactly the problem right there, It's their church rather than Gods.

Amen there Jenni but sadly enough this kind of thing happens all the time all over this wonderful usa.

People for the most part dont except what is not the norm and speak as if they are the judge of Christ and twist the very word of God to suite thier own beliefs !!

This happens with gender challenged people and gays and anyone else that simply does not fit into thier preconcieved box of notions.
Its sad and it is NOT of God !!
Hugs Jami

Funny, I thought I was in love with Christ until his followers all started telling me I was going to hell for not turning life into one.

Anyhow, Gman, let's look at those Bible quotes you posted,

"Leviticus 20:13 --This is not relevant to the topic. Transsexuality and homosexuality are not the same or even closely related. A fair amount of TSes are asexual <_< (or any other orientation...some are hetero-)

Leviticus 18:22 -- Again, derailing the topic

...having read through again, I noticed none even touched on the topic at hand. At best there were some about sin in general, but none saying being (born a) transsexual was a sin, nor was fixing the dysphoria.

Human wrote:Funny, I thought I was in love with Christ until his followers all started telling me I was going to hell for not turning life into one.

Anyhow, Gman, let's look at those Bible quotes you posted,

"Leviticus 20:13 --This is not relevant to the topic. Transsexuality and homosexuality are not the same or even closely related. A fair amount of TSes are asexual <_< (or any other orientation...some are hetero-)

Leviticus 18:22 -- Again, derailing the topic

...having read through again, I noticed none even touched on the topic at hand. At best there were some about sin in general, but none saying being (born a) transsexual was a sin, nor was fixing the dysphoria.

No one is born homosexual or true transsexual. Like it or not... Homosexuality is a sin...