Re: OEC and redemptive history
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:55 pm
Wow this discussion is great! I definately lean towards an OEC view and have never run into any real problems with it, But the biblical account of Adam and Eve has allways kept me in great thought and speculation. My thoughts right now about it are that I just don't know when they were created exactly or who they were, but I do know when they were not created and who they weren't.
I'd like to inject some information that we do know about them from the Bible.
1) location: Eden, which was fed by four rivers listed by name. Two of those still exist today (tigris and Euphrates) and flow through Mesopotamia and into the persian gulf. This is the most likely location for where these people lived.
2) technologies/practices: In Eden, Adam and Eve walked around naked and ate randomly picked fruits from the plants and trees. After the fall they wore coverings, first of leaves, then of animal skins. One of the curses was that they would get their food by hard work and "sweat of your brow" maybe as hunter-gatherers or the very most primitive attempt to raise their own crops. Two of their children, Caine and Abel, would be farmers and shepherds respectivly. Shem would be the first to build a permanent settlement named it after his son Enoch.
3) spiritual: Before the fall there was definately knowledge and understanding of God. They had seemingly direct contact with God, walking and talking with him regularly. After the fall there was knowledge and contact with God, but also the knowledge of sin and evil (or just the knowledge that you could do something you weren't supposed to).
A few of my personal beliefs are that all animals, including early humans, have a soul. It states many times in the Bible that everything that swims in the sea, flies in the skies or walks on the ground are "living souls". The difference between man and animal is that our soul was made in the image and likeness of God. So where is the line between humans who had living souls and humans that have a living soul like God's? Well, for me, it's any peoples that made their own clothing, made jewelry, created art, made functional AND beautiful tools AND kept them, but most importantly peoples who ritually buried their dead. When did this happen? I don't know. Genetic palentology can trace modern human male DNA back to about 60K years ago, but can trace modern human female DNA to about 160K years ago. The Neanderthal man, who displays many, if not all of the characteristics I listed above, is said to be traced back to at least 1.5M years ago.
I know for sure that Adam and Eve were not created in 4004 BC because this would put Noah's flood(2340 BC) right smack in the middle of the building of the great pyramids at Giza (2700-2160 BC) and would put the tower of Babel between 2244 and 2005 BC, which is long after the races of the world, their tounges and written history were established.
Again, I don't know who Adam and Eve are supposed to be or when they showed up. Their story is one that still has science, history, culture and the Bible bumping heads. Somewhere there has to be a key that fits it all together.
I'd like to inject some information that we do know about them from the Bible.
1) location: Eden, which was fed by four rivers listed by name. Two of those still exist today (tigris and Euphrates) and flow through Mesopotamia and into the persian gulf. This is the most likely location for where these people lived.
2) technologies/practices: In Eden, Adam and Eve walked around naked and ate randomly picked fruits from the plants and trees. After the fall they wore coverings, first of leaves, then of animal skins. One of the curses was that they would get their food by hard work and "sweat of your brow" maybe as hunter-gatherers or the very most primitive attempt to raise their own crops. Two of their children, Caine and Abel, would be farmers and shepherds respectivly. Shem would be the first to build a permanent settlement named it after his son Enoch.
3) spiritual: Before the fall there was definately knowledge and understanding of God. They had seemingly direct contact with God, walking and talking with him regularly. After the fall there was knowledge and contact with God, but also the knowledge of sin and evil (or just the knowledge that you could do something you weren't supposed to).
A few of my personal beliefs are that all animals, including early humans, have a soul. It states many times in the Bible that everything that swims in the sea, flies in the skies or walks on the ground are "living souls". The difference between man and animal is that our soul was made in the image and likeness of God. So where is the line between humans who had living souls and humans that have a living soul like God's? Well, for me, it's any peoples that made their own clothing, made jewelry, created art, made functional AND beautiful tools AND kept them, but most importantly peoples who ritually buried their dead. When did this happen? I don't know. Genetic palentology can trace modern human male DNA back to about 60K years ago, but can trace modern human female DNA to about 160K years ago. The Neanderthal man, who displays many, if not all of the characteristics I listed above, is said to be traced back to at least 1.5M years ago.
I know for sure that Adam and Eve were not created in 4004 BC because this would put Noah's flood(2340 BC) right smack in the middle of the building of the great pyramids at Giza (2700-2160 BC) and would put the tower of Babel between 2244 and 2005 BC, which is long after the races of the world, their tounges and written history were established.
Again, I don't know who Adam and Eve are supposed to be or when they showed up. Their story is one that still has science, history, culture and the Bible bumping heads. Somewhere there has to be a key that fits it all together.