Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Gman wrote:

RickD wrote:Ok, I understand you'd point now. That's what I thought you meant, but wanted to be sure because you said:

It's interesting that hurricane Irene is growing in the Atlantic. Just after putting pressure on Israel.. I don't think this is a coincidence..

My only question to you still stands if this hurricane is a judgement by God on the US. Why are other countries bearing the brunt of this storm? The Bahamas was right in the middle of its path.

Yes.. I've already answered that question. Top post.

G, that answer doesn't hold water IMO. If the hurricane is a judgment against the US as you infer, then God could have directed its path around other countries. That surely would have gotten more peoples attention.

I'm not sure what you are talking about.. When this hurricane is finished I bet it will be more costly to the U.S. than the Bahamas. In fact I would even argue that it will cost even more before it hits. All these places that have to close down and evacuate along the entire east coast? Even if we are talking about 1 to 2 strength.

Again, I don't know. An earthquake close to DC and now a hurricane after we threaten Israel? I'm not saying that these events are linked but I wouldn't deny it either..

To be honest if this is from God, I don't blame Him.. We are all guilty before Him. As far as I'm concerned we are all on borrowed time... Including me.

i think we wasted 300 dollars preparing for a tropical storm that did absolutly nothing to us; 1 downed tree and a little rain and wind, guess I passed gods judgement

TBH, I thought that the hurricane hitting NY was in part due to their legalization of gay marriages; but still, I am very cautious about predicting judgment on others.

And notice how DC got nothing, just a bit of rain and wind. Same with the quake, just a few fallen pictures and a few fallen bricks. If god is tuley sending DC a message it must just be a love tap on the shoulder.

Murray wrote:
And notice how DC got nothing, just a bit of rain and wind. Same with the quake, just a few fallen pictures and a few fallen bricks. If god is tuley sending DC a message it must just be a love tap on the shoulder.

You mean like a threat? Sounds like the same threat we gave to Israel a few days ago... A warning.

Anyways, I would be more interested what happens on Sept 20th where the UN might vote against Israel. I guess we will have to wait to see..

Gman wrote:

Murray wrote:
And notice how DC got nothing, just a bit of rain and wind. Same with the quake, just a few fallen pictures and a few fallen bricks. If god is tuley sending DC a message it must just be a love tap on the shoulder.

You mean like a threat? Sounds like the same threat we gave to Israel a few days ago... A warning.

Anyways, I would be more interested what happens on Sept 20th were the UN might vote against Israel. I guess we will have to wait to see..

More like a shot across the bow... a warning...
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The UN cannot force Isreal to do anything. Isreal will not give up that land and who is going to make them? There is no middle eastern power that by itself could hold a days ground against Isreals army. lsreal unlike all middle eatern armies uses 1) U.S war doctrine 2) Western training 3) they have U.S military supplies and know how to use it 4) an extremly motivated and well trained army 5) One of the largest armies in the world despite being one of the smallest countries. To beat isreal you would need a china or russia sending man power.

The U.N will not send in the peace core or something, they will just say "bad isreal" and get over it.
The UN is a waste, they never get a thing accomplished, what makes you think this vote will be any different.

When Perry gets elected we will stop this crap of demanding Isreal give up it's defence barriers.
If obama wants them to give back that land then we should give back texas, new mexico, arizona,and California because we took those in a war that we actually started unlike isreal that got 4 arab nations ambushing it on a holy day with no warning.

Well the leaders of the U.N. agreed today that the land of Israel should be divided up.. If not now, sometime in the future. How stupid.. Imagine that, taking a tiny country and making it even smaller to where you could throw a rock and hit the other side. A defenseless country... While other countries murder their citizens it doesn't even raise a flag amongst the elite while Israel get's slapped around like a toy for putting porches on their decks.

Well.. Don't worry. It just so happens they want to go against G-d. How dumb can you get?

Projection: Get ready for more world catastrophes. They did not adhere to the calling. A HUGE mistake that comes with a heavy price tag. More economic and natural disasters are on the way.. Good luck. Sad to say they failed the test. G-d help us..

We have to be careful to say disasters are gods judgement on people.

The bible belt has the highest percentage of tornados, does that mean it is "gods wrath"?

Murray wrote:We have to be careful to say disasters are gods judgement on people.

The bible belt has the highest percentage of tornados, does that mean it is "gods wrath"?

No I wouldn't say that every time we experience a tornado or earthquake or some other natural disaster that it is of God. However, that said, God can do anything He pleases and we need to be aware of that too. God has His reasons..

Here is a good website on that topic although I don't agree with all of it.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c023.html

BIBLICAL EXAMPLES. Scripture contains many examples of God controlling the weather and using it to direct people and nations…

Genesis 6:5-9:19 (Earth destroyed by flood, people and animals killed)
Exodus 9:23-29 (hail and fire from heaven on Egypt)
Joshua 10:11 (hail on the Amorites, etc.)
I Samuel 7:10 (thunder disperses the Philistines)
Nahum 1:3 (judgment with whirlwind and drought)
Leviticus 26:19-20 (rainless sky, parched earth)
Deuteronomy 11:13-15 (rain as reward for obedience)
Deuteronomy 28:24 (drought punishment)
I Samuel 12:18 (thunder and rain to get people's attention)
II Samuel 21:1 (drought and famine)
I Kings 8:35-36 (good weather reward)
I Kings 16:30-18:45 (rain withheld and given)
Hosea 13:15 (dry weather)
Amos 4:7 (rain given and withheld from certain cities)
Jonah 1:4,10-15 (man punished and redirected by sea storm)
Zechariah 14:17 (rain withheld as judgment)
Revelation 16:21 (hailstone punishment)

Gman wrote:Apparently 2011 is suppose to go down as one of the worst years for catastrophes as predicted by the prophets.. These modern day prophets are predicting more economic, natural disasters, and of course more wars... This is only the beginning of the troubles for this year.

Sorry for the bad news folks but now would be a good time to trust in Christ. Please take time to consider this...

If you want to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, this is a great prayer that will get you there.

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.”

Blessings..

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Gman-That was really considerate of you-

I know we don't know the date nor the time nor the hour but we sure can know the signs-I don't believe for one second that we Christians will be here to endure any kind of nuclear weapons warfare.
I believe the Word of the Living God-

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.



Now that's Harpazo Baby-

Gman wrote:

Murray wrote:We have to be careful to say disasters are gods judgement on people.

The bible belt has the highest percentage of tornados, does that mean it is "gods wrath"?

No I wouldn't say that every time we experience a tornado or earthquake or some other natural disaster that it is of God. However, that said, God can do anything He pleases and we need to be aware of that too. God has His reasons..

Here is a good website on that topic although I don't agree with all of it.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c023.html

BIBLICAL EXAMPLES. Scripture contains many examples of God controlling the weather and using it to direct people and nations…

Genesis 6:5-9:19 (Earth destroyed by flood, people and animals killed)
Exodus 9:23-29 (hail and fire from heaven on Egypt)
Joshua 10:11 (hail on the Amorites, etc.)
I Samuel 7:10 (thunder disperses the Philistines)
Nahum 1:3 (judgment with whirlwind and drought)
Leviticus 26:19-20 (rainless sky, parched earth)
Deuteronomy 11:13-15 (rain as reward for obedience)
Deuteronomy 28:24 (drought punishment)
I Samuel 12:18 (thunder and rain to get people's attention)
II Samuel 21:1 (drought and famine)
I Kings 8:35-36 (good weather reward)
I Kings 16:30-18:45 (rain withheld and given)
Hosea 13:15 (dry weather)
Amos 4:7 (rain given and withheld from certain cities)
Jonah 1:4,10-15 (man punished and redirected by sea storm)
Zechariah 14:17 (rain withheld as judgment)
Revelation 16:21 (hailstone punishment)

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I have heard this info preached-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=oOi ... =endscreen

Tiffany Dawn wrote: **************************************
Gman-That was really considerate of you-

I know we don't know the date nor the time nor the hour but we sure can know the signs-I don't believe for one second that we Christians will be here to endure any kind of nuclear weapons warfare.
I believe the Word of the Living God-

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.



Now that's Harpazo Baby-

Thank you.. Yes.. I believe that we will be spared from G-d's wrath but not necessarily from satan's wrath. Therefore there will come a time when we will have to endure...

I don't really believe in the rapture either... Our Biblical ancestors experienced hardship in this world, I don't think that we will necessarily escape from that either, drinking coffee on our couches while the world crumbles before our very eyes. There will come a time when we will have to get up and move...

There is a marked difference between persecution, hardship, losses such as Job endured, and the utter execution of God’s wrath. This confusion stems primarily from the western methodical / scholastic approach to biblical interpretive tradition.

A good example of this confusion is found in discussions regarding dead works (Hebrews 6:1 and Hebrews 9:14 verses good works (Titus 3:8, Eph 2:10). What do these two works consist off? Are dead works those that a person does to be justified and/or stay righteous in God’s sight as well as others – such as were done maintaining the Mosaic laws? What are Good works?

Good Works

Titus3:14 And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.

Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Dead Works

Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Now we come back to the wrath of God – the utter execution of God’s wrath…

Which is being spoken here in these verses?

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

What of current afflictions – are they God’s utter wrath?

1Th 3:3 that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.

1Th 3:4 For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.

Of God’s utter wrath…

Rev 19:9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.
Isa 26:21 For behold, the LORD comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain.

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Verses from the NKJV

There is a marked difference between persecution, hardship, losses such as Job endured, and the utter execution of God’s wrath. This confusion stems primarily from the western methodical / scholastic approach to biblical interpretive tradition. So to even demostrate this more, if readers would like, there maybe post posted debating this soon and therefore watch and read...

If you desire to go thru God's utter wrath - as is your faith so be it. My faith will be in Isaiah 26:20-21 and Paul's words spoken much later on...
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I've always understood the difference between good works and dead works as the INTENT behind them.
Works are works but what makes them good in the eyes of God is the intent.
One taking care of their neighbour out of love is doing a good work, while one that takes care out of wanting a recompense of sort ( be it from the neighbour or god) is still a work, it's just a dead work.
The vast majority of the OT Law was dead works, most did them out of fear of God and to get something from God ( to earn salvation).
Christ showed us to do out of love, love for our neighbour ( even our enemy) and love for God, not for recompense ( though that would came later) but out of love.
God's divine gift of Grace is that example of Love that we are to follow:
We don't merit that grace ( God;s Love), nothing we do is deserving of it, but it is given to Us.
Grace is the ultimate example of "good works".

PaulSacramento wrote:I've always understood the difference between good works and dead works as the INTENT behind them.
Works are works but what makes them good in the eyes of God is the intent.
One taking care of their neighbour out of love is doing a good work, while one that takes care out of wanting a recompense of sort ( be it from the neighbour or god) is still a work, it's just a dead work.
The vast majority of the OT Law was dead works, most did them out of fear of God and to get something from God ( to earn salvation).
Christ showed us to do out of love, love for our neighbour ( even our enemy) and love for God, not for recompense ( though that would came later) but out of love.
God's divine gift of Grace is that example of Love that we are to follow:
We don't merit that grace ( God;s Love), nothing we do is deserving of it, but it is given to Us.
Grace is the ultimate example of "good works".

Excellent points!

In you opinion, How does good intent slip into dead works?
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