Evidence for God from Science

Well, except Sam Harris - and just look at the nonsense that started coming out of his mouth

Harris is an idiot who said this "If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion." Wouldn't you want the doctors to check this guy's mental state and how up his head is in "Atheism". I know some good atheists who think Harris is a stain on atheism, if you ask me, and just out of pity, I think the same.

neo-x wrote:

Well, except Sam Harris - and just look at the nonsense that started coming out of his mouth

Harris is an idiot who said this "If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion." Wouldn't you want the doctors to check this guys mental state and how up his head is in "Atheism". I know some good atheists who think Harris is a stain on atheism, if you ask me, and just out of pity, I think the same.

Well, I was just referring to the debate with Craig and he really messed up there. After his first speech it was all red herrings, insults and off-topic references to arguments. I haven't seen him much anywhere else so I wouldn't know, but in general "New Atheists" have a horrible attitude. And then we start getting comments like "his book made me ashamed to be an atheist" and so on.
I have to say though - them having a (in any case often) horrible attitude doesn't justify our doing the same.

Reactionary on Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:57 pm

neo-x wrote:
Thank you for your opinion, and for going the length to write a detailed response to my bash-y post, which was just pun...anyways. For all the certain proved answers you have, I'm sure you think I am an obvious idiot, having low IQ, worshiping magic beings and believing in after life.; well I hope you you start living a life in atheist countries, go, have a shot at it, then come back some time, and tell us how do you feel, later?. there are some great atheist countries to live which follow atheism with a passion and vigor.


Neo, looks like we've been writing rebuttals at the same time. Well written, I just think that I put in more humour, but that's just my opinion...

Anyway, I don't think our atheist friend is going to recover from this. He must have thought he was dealing with illiterate shepherds or something...

I hope he knows he isn't fooling anyone here. I was baffled by the absurdity of some statements. By the way whats the thing with low IQ's huh...I know some of the brightest people who believe in some religion. Seriously, I am starting to think we should make a IQ test thread for atheists - who think atheists have a higher IQ - where they should put down their IQ's before coming to us and debate about the thing. Yeah, I wanna know what superior IQ does the person has, who is asking such questions and at the same time accusing us of low intelligence.

I have to say though - them having a (in any case often) horrible attitude doesn't justify our doing the same.

And we do not, but some people just earn it. At least they have the right to be criticized the way they criticize others. And there is not a single thing I wrote, which was a lie or just based on my bias. I can't see why, if on a christian forum, they can call us whatever they like, can't we just ask them the same? And I'm not even using bad language. LOL

neo-x wrote:I hope he knows he isn't fooling anyone here. I was baffled by the absurdity of some statements. By the way whats the thing with low IQ's huh...I know some of the brightest people who believe in some religion. Seriously, I am starting to think we should make a IQ test thread for atheists - who think atheists have a higher IQ - where they should put down their IQ's before coming to us and debate about the thing. Yeah, I wanna know what superior IQ does the person has, who is asking such questions and at the same time accusing us of low intelligence.

The issue is actually about GDP per capita vs. IQ, not religion vs. IQ. And when people live better, they often fell they have less need for God, so they become less religious. When problems or diseases arise, then they turn to God again. You won't find many atheists on a battlefield. There is an article about GDP vs. IQ on the main site, I think I provided a link a few posts ago.

By the way, good reply to our atheists' complaints. "Don't treat others in a way you wouldn't want to be treated yourself" would be my best advice to them.

by Reactionary on Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:15 pm

SnowDrops wrote:
Yeah, every once in a while someone comes like that and says: "You're all stupid and there's nothing to your religion or arguments and I have wonderful arguments to show you that". But then they forget this is an apologetics site .
Still, that's usually in response to somewhat arrogant posts like these - which actually belong in the Humor and Jokes section.


But it is a step forward nonetheless... At least the guy had the guts to come here, most Internet atheists don't. They usually ramble on sites where they're in the majority, so they become super-confident about being right. Turns out that humanity has been deluded for 2,000 years until they came to brighten us. It's like centuries of Christian scholarship haven't found out how to address their typical objections. I must admit that I expected something more challenging... Maybe in his next post?

The most challenging thing you would find in most atheist comments is the level of ignorance once has to witness in order to give a reasonable reply. I mean how do you respond "reasonably" when someone says, "I know you believe in unicorns"...

----

The issue is actually about GDP per capita vs. IQ, not religion vs. IQ. And when people live better, they often fell they have less need for God, so they become less religious. When problems or diseases arise, then they turn to God again. You won't find many atheists on a battlefield. There is an article about GDP vs. IQ on the main site, I think I provided a link a few posts ago.

By the way, good reply to our atheists' complaints. "Don't treat others in a way you wouldn't want to be treated yourself" would be my best advice to them.

By the way I got that link, it was on page 2 I guess. thanks once again.

My husband, who is Atheist, plans to teach our future children about as many religions as possible and expose them to as many interesting people as he can provide safely.

Most of what you said is rather untrue... I have an inkling of an idea that you haven't met a nice Atheist (least that you know of). My husband would only bring up that he is an Atheist when asked about if he believes in God. He often softens it by saying he believes in a start to the Universe and that one could refer to as "God".

But just the act of saying- "I do not believe in God" will offend any Christian. So, of course every Atheist will offend you somehow and be disrespectful in your eyes so long as they remain Atheist.

My husband, who is Atheist, plans to teach our future children about as many religions as possible and expose them to as many interesting people as he can provide safely.

It is not that atheists don't teach their children about religions, it is how they teach it and how they represent it. If you are going to teach your child, "hey, here is religion, don't go near it." Whats the point of teaching? and whats so noble about it?

Most of what you said is rather untrue... I have an inkling of an idea that you haven't met a nice Atheist (least that you know of). My husband would only bring up that he is an Atheist when asked about if he believes in God. He often softens it by saying he believes in a start to the Universe and that one could refer to as "God".

Which parts are untrue?...well lets just say in this case your husband is a soft atheist and if I might hint, may be it is because of you. I'm talking about real-hardcore atheists, which I think you have never tried to look at.

But just the act of saying- "I do not believe in God" will offend any Christian. So, of course every Atheist will offend you somehow and be disrespectful in your eyes so long as they remain Atheist.

This goes both ways. But honestly, I do not care, and believe me I'm not offended when someone admits he is an atheist. It is when they pretend, everyone died and made them the authority on religion, is when I actually pay attention.

Many atheist do not even understand Christianity, they point out its of stories extremely our of context then claim it promotes killing and then ignore quotes from god that states he never wants death but wants all to change instead.

And what gets on me, being a history buff, is when atheist claim religion has killed so much and then I point out Stalin, Hitler (always have to give them a history lesson on him), world war I, world war II, the holocaust, the mass extermination of the Christians, the red purge. Then they go on to point to the crusades then I give them another 10 minute history lesson on why religion was only used to unite knights not actually start the war as many uneducated atheist believe; the list goes on and on. My problem is , many atheist do not understand Christianity, or history, and make absolutely no effort to as it would hurt their deranged ideology. I read atheist sites more than I read this site, I read anti-religion books, and I have even sat through teachers going against religion, I am well taught in atheism and I full understand , I understand the quantum vacuum, I understand science, I understand their bigoted point of view. :]

Let me present this, never in my life Have a come across an atheist who understands the bible in context, and understands human history and looks at it from a neutral point of view.

They derange them selves in christophoic propaganda and delude the actuality of things. It's a shame, many intelligent people are atheist but they are so stuck in their way of thinking that many fail to listen to logic and reason (lol), the atheist that I have talked to generally become at least agnostics when I pretty much dismantle every historical and biblical argument they make against us, and that is why I am firm in my belief that all tolerant and understanding atheist do not exist, only from agnostics have I seen a form of understanding

Many people mess up atheist and agnostic though. An agnostic worldview is actually almost always a legitimate position to hold, depending on how certain evidence you require. Still, at some point demanding further evidence becomes ridiculous, because the same people accept many other things as certain with sometimes even less evidence.

Sorry for saying something slightly off topic, i just finished reading 1984 and i wanted to check out if there was a movie or something so i saw a trailer on youtube and i saw comment that struck me a little as it seems true from my own experience of my life and those around me.

"People should read "Postemotional society" by Stepan Mestrovic. He writes how totalitariansm these days is emotional, suppressing anti-social emotions like anger while blowing constructive emotions like wanting people to like you, out of proportion. It's actually more effective than sealing people off factual knowledge. Once you know a forbidden fact you're awake, but when you can't feel emotion they can throw a baby under a train in front of your eyes and you won't know what's happening."

Scary stuff since i definitely can relate to the suppressing of anti social emotions and trying to get everyone to like you, out of proportion.

Here is how I invision an atheistic utopia:

Cataclismic event between Christians and Muslims allows room for propaganda to reach a new high as to allow the influence reach developed nations' public pocily and political heads of power.

After social outcries of persecution of religious belief governmental leaders agreed to put freedom of religion back since forcing beliefs is bad for the policy even if it is to stop beliefs that always end up in society bashing and propagation of violent extremists(moderate religious intitutions were proven to allow the existence of cults to flurish). Anyone over the age of 14 may profess a belief of any kind but under that age they are not allowed religious indoctrination from parents or churches. First new generations must be taught in schools that religion was a tool of the past and with our new evolution in ideas is proven not neccesary. To fill the God shaped hole in the masses, they were encouraged to do Buddhist meditations, and even prayer as long as bronze age beliefs were emphasized as being made up and unreliable.

The supernatural is deemed by the government as unbelivable because they are proven with the best accuracy possible that it is at least inaccessible and thus a drag to human advancement. A holiday to replace Christmas was put in place as a celebration of the freedom from religion and the symbol of Jesus still there to represent the pain it causes like human sacrifice.

But the masses saw religion to equate with insanity and delusions of granduer, and most of them concluded that all religions were simply too arbitrary and archaic and thus unreliable.
Those reported as possible victims of religious belief were sent to the centers of psychoanalysis for interviews on thier mental health to help them get out of the illogical evolutionary past beliefs. Pamphlets were given urging them to see the falsity of all religions.

Those who were evaluated positive in the DSM for religious belief were not allowed to raise children and offered treatment therapy for free. Those marked as religious were generally seen as selfish for being able to get out of their insanity but arrogantly refusing to do so.

The youth in highschool are eager to take on their moral duty of existential fulfillment to bring whatever purpose the can make on their own to master their own destiny in this world.

The government awed the masses with extravagant scientific infradtructure and new cars, and corperations profited from them with new devices of pleasure and healthy mind state inducing chemicals that felt enlightening.

As countries became more and more self supporting with green technology and robots and stuff, hedonism and pride become the ruling force of the world...

CeT-To wrote:Sorry for saying something slightly off topic, i just finished reading 1984 and i wanted to check out if there was a movie or something so i saw a trailer on youtube and i saw comment that struck me a little as it seems true from my own experience of my life and those around me.

"People should read "Postemotional society" by Stepan Mestrovic. He writes how totalitariansm these days is emotional, suppressing anti-social emotions like anger while blowing constructive emotions like wanting people to like you, out of proportion. It's actually more effective than sealing people off factual knowledge. Once you know a forbidden fact you're awake, but when you can't feel emotion they can throw a baby under a train in front of your eyes and you won't know what's happening."

Scary stuff since i definitely can relate to the suppressing of anti social emotions and trying to get everyone to like you, out of proportion.

Scary

neo-x wrote:10. All atheists should never swear by the name of “god” or anything resembling to it, phrases like

Holy god,
Holy mother of God,
oh Jesus!,
I swear to God,
God-damn it
O my God
Holy [poop]

are to be replaced by

dear Aristotle,
dear mother of Aristotle
oh NEWTON!
I swear to the earth’s gravitational pull
Darwin-damn it
O my electrons
Archimedes’ [poop]

etc, etc and anything else that you can substitute with it. Avoid using scientists names like Blaise Pascal, Johann Wolfgang Dobereiner, Louis Pasteur, Chandrasekhara Venkata Raman, Galileo Galilei, Thomas Alva Edison, Leonardo da Vinci -as they may twist the tongue in a long sentence and make you sound shutoo-pid, sorry!

Once, I convinced an atheist to say "Oh My Science" instead of "Oh My God."

SnowDrops wrote:Many people mess up atheist and agnostic though. An agnostic worldview is actually almost always a legitimate position to hold, depending on how certain evidence you require. Still, at some point demanding further evidence becomes ridiculous, because the same people accept many other things as certain with sometimes even less evidence.

I lived for quite some time as an agnostic. I had no inclination to undermine others beliefs nor was I open to others opinions that I should simply believe them but I was also ignorant of something that would eventually change my world view. I had been given a gift of understanding for mechanical things. Even as a child I was messing with things to better understand them as my mom recounts it. For many years I put myself into everything I could that would reveal more about the world around me and could have cared less for beliefs. However, at some point I had a conversation with someone who said I didn't really understand the ultimate mechanics... of life. Of course at that time they were quite correct.
Since that time I have studied the mechanics of life 'religiously' and as I gained understanding by way of my gift and by persistence I found the area that eventually revealed the truth that would lead me to intelligent design arguments and then ultimately to recognise that the God of abraham and Christ were a reality that could no longer be ignored.
God may have created all life in most peoples minds but in my mind he also created the systems that allow life to persist. His designs have persisted because of their original organisation. God gave us all a systematic method to replicate as part of our structure and when a man and woman do their part in the system it takes that simple act and by its process it forms a new life. We are only shadows of the image that God created us to be and as such we can only participate in the system that he formed.