Christian Genocide

[Murray]

^

[Seraph]

It is not genocide to call out injustice when one sees it. I'd say it's a Godly trait.

Therefore any type governmental social justice redistribution of wealth is against the Laws of God and therefore are not of God, nor cannot be. Why, because, one, they promote stealing, bearing false witness (wrongful slander of the innocent wealthy). Coveting your wealthy neighbors possession… etc...

Stealing from the wealthy? They're paying taxes. Everyone is expected to pay taxes. Give unto Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar. It is not stealing to tax the wealthy anymore than it is to tax the poor. I would argue rather that the conservative worldview results in the rich stealing from the poor. It is this system that results in people like George Soros like you referenced.

Too many good Christians are being duped to break the moral commands of the Lord in seeking to stick it to the wealthy. Please avoid this trap. So – do you have Genocide (hate-Murder) in your heart toward the wealthy? Jesus enjoined hate with murder and what is genocide except murder of many, and what of hate of the wealthy then?

And sticking it to the "innocent" wealthy? Nobody is intentionally hating the wealthy just to hate the wealthy, at least not me or the leftist people I know. I think it is an extremely simplified worldview to reduce the goals of democrats and liberals just to "to stick it to the wealthy". It's more like encouraging social justice and making sure that those less fortunate than the lucky wealthy (yes, more often than not the wealthy are not good hard workers but are simply lucky, born into their wealth) are able to keep their heads above water as well as making sure this country has enough tax revenue to do what needs to be done to run our government. In other words helping out the poor, a somewhat prominent theme in Jesus' teaching. Cutting spending in unnecessary areas should be part of it to, but should not be an excuse to not raise taxes. I don't think that we should let the rift between the low and high classes grow excessively huge, let the living conditions for the majority lower class spiral downward, and let the government default on debt from lack of revenue just because we don't want to speak ill of wealthy people or be afraid that we aren't rewarding them for their (questionable) hard work because they don't have lower taxes than everyone else.

Jesus and the bible said you'll know a tree by its fruit, known by what comes forth from the heart to the mouth, and be careful of the company one keeps. These help define a person and true motives. Obama's own words betray him - constant class-warfare is evil and a breach of the moral laws of God. May the fruit of his lips and that of the Left not come to pass fore I hate the thought of Americans actually killing each other because of the rhetoric of class warfare played too far...for the benefit of the power elites…

I think you're mixing up exactly who is on the side of class warfare and promoting elitism. Sorry but I feel that by accusing people of genocide of the heart and accusing the left of being against the side of God, you're just using ad hominem attacks rather than adequately tackling the issue as do many on the right-wing. Also, a good portion of leftists are Christians with God in their lives, so this illusion that the Christians are obligated to join the right-wing needs to end.

[Jonouchi Katsuya]

As someone who is married to an Atheist, I would like to state, you have no idea how sweet an Atheist can be (I am female by the way). I am with him because he lives his life to help others. He lives to make people happy. He lives to serve people. He was raised Mormon- his family beat, abused- sexually, emotionally, physically- abused him. They used the bible as the reasoning behind their tyranny against him. He escaped them by sheer luck alone. The doctor said he is lucky to still be walking. He is lucky to be as mentally stable as he is... he is lucky and wonderful enough to still... wish to help others.

He is slightly more feminine than a normal male but that is no excuse to hurt anyone. Even if God did say so in the Bible to stone a male like him who didn't embody the ideal male. Kill them. If you don't kill people who don't embody the gender stereotype (women wearing pants) Then you are against God.

As for Genocide- I can't think of another being in all of humanity that committed more Genocide than God.

And Hitler was Catholic and his actions were condoned at the time by the Catholic Church because he was eliminating people who did not believe in Christ the lord and savior.

But I guess if that isn't enough for you Moses committed Genocide because God told him to. United States used Christianity to kill many, many Native Americans. And... Vlad the Impaler was commissioned by the Catholic Church. He was the savior of his country- but he did commit many atrocities against humanity.

But I am a very secular theist who believes in God. I just... I don't think Christians should be speaking of Genocide like it is something they never did and point the finger at Atheist... like they are the only ones. Christians, it is in your book that Genocide is OK as long as it is against a country who doesn't agree with you spiritually. It is OK to MURDER women who wear pants. It is OK to murder women who work or act like men. It is OK to murder a man you consider to be feminine. It is OK... and if you think Jesus changed all that... you would be sadly mistaken.

God is to be feared... and God is to be served. God wishes for you to be his mindless army.... and destroy anyone who opposes you.

If you don't believe me- read the Bible. It is the bloodiest, most sexually explicit, most violent- most most most- on all levels compared to any other book I have read. Any. To say the holy book is...

Sorry- I have got Cherubim in my head right now. Creepy! And when Gabriel came down to earth? Did you notice how scared that guy was?????

God is feared... as well as his messengers. And it is for good reason. Genocide.

[SnowDrops]

Nobody hates the rich. The idea is simply that everybody pays their just share. Rich people getting tax cuts is hardly just. Then again, you can go too far with this idea. That's why we have both democrats and republicans - to keep things balanced. Of course. that only works if they can agree, compromise and work together. Otherwise, the whole process is a mess. I don't think that all Christians should be republicans though.

[Murray]

The reason obama stopped giving tax cuts to the rich if they donated 10 million dollars to a Christian charity is because obama wants he himself, robin hood, to give it to them so he can get their vote. What good is a charity giving money to poor people if it does not help him?

Obama has clearly said he wishes to take from the rich and give to the poor, but honestly, does it seem like he cares about the poor? All he wants is their vote.

Obama knows 100% that a rich tax will not work; it is simply a game to make the poor happy because he is attacking "the greedy ruthless thugs that made the poor poor".

And do you know how that small amount of money he received with the rich would be used? It would go to the welfare program, it would go out to the majority of welfare receivers who do nothing to attempt to get a job but instead just wait for their welfare check so they can by chrome rims for their car. The people who recieve welfare, generally (disregarding the small population that truley does need it) own 3 things. You know what those things are? An Xbox, A car prices over 10,000 dollars, and internet. Now internet is generally 80 dollars a month, plus care for your car, plus the amount for an xbox and its games, does that seem like good use of welfare money?

The truth is a majority of the youth in this country are fat, and lazy. Do you know why we have high immigration and high unemployment? It is because these people refuse to get off their be hinds and get a job. Talk to a rich person, most started off small and worked up, but people today want everything given. I've worked with the poor and homeless and you know what, most o them like it, they live off others. When you see a homeless veteran you assume the war ruined their life and gov abandoned them right? no, wrong, If they did not want to live on the streets they could go to the VA and have the gov help em off their feet, Our VA, is amazing, when you hear about how its bad , there’s a reason it is making news , it is because it is very rare for the VA to mess up.

I know this might be offensive , but it is true, the poor are poor because they are lazy, the homeless are homeless because they are lazy. Most of these people refuse actually aid, they just wish to continue being given money. I know this for a fact as I have for many years worked with them and will continue to work with them. I would say only 1 in 5 poor/homeless would ever put any effort into reviving their lives, hell if i told one I paid for him full expense to go to trade school they would probably not go. They just like being given things without work, simple as that.

So why, in your opinion, should we (unsuccessfully) attempt to pour more taxes on to already heavily taxed group that got where they are through determination, hard work, and smarts?

[Seraph]

The reason obama stopped giving tax cuts to the rich if they donated 10 million dollars to a Christian charity is because obama wants he himself, robin hood, to give it to them so he can get their vote. What good is a charity giving money to poor people if it does not help him?

Obama has clearly said he wishes to take from the rich and give to the poor, but honestly, does it seem like he cares about the poor? All he wants is their vote.

Obama knows 100% that a rich tax will not work; it is simply a game to make the poor happy because he is attacking "the greedy ruthless thugs that made the poor poor".

And do you know how that small amount of money he received with the rich would be used? It would go to the welfare program, it would go out to the majority of welfare receivers who do nothing to attempt to get a job but instead just wait for their welfare check so they can by chrome rims for their car. The people who recieve welfare, generally (disregarding the small population that truley does need it) own 3 things. You know what those things are? An Xbox, A car prices over 10,000 dollars, and internet. Now internet is generally 80 dollars a month, plus care for your car, plus the amount for an xbox and its games, does that seem like good use of welfare money?

I'm just curious, how do you know that any of this is true? I would submit to you that it isn't true and it's made up by hyper-partisan republicans that want to hate Obama no matter what he does. I've seen these claims made by republicans in my family many times, never have they given evidence of it, they just declare it so. It's little more than an urban legend that people spread without investigating it. I keep up with news, I see no reason to suspect that these are the president's motives. They are preconcieved unfalsafiable notions.

I know this might be offensive , but it is true, the poor are poor because they are lazy, the homeless are homeless because they are lazy. Most of these people refuse actually aid, they just wish to continue being given money. I know this for a fact as I have for many years worked with them and will continue to work with them. I would say only 1 in 5 poor/homeless would ever put any effort into reviving their lives, hell if i told one I paid for him full expense to go to trade school they would probably not go. They just like being given things without work, simple as that.

This is false plain and simple. Especially true in this economy where one can lose their house in a second, there are tons and tons of factors that can make a person poor besides being fat and lazy. Republicans assert that this is true with all their might because it would justify their worldview, but it is false. Many poor people work tirelessly but are unable to make enough money to do anything more than barely keep their head above water because their job simply cannot pay them enough or they're getting taken advantage of by their bank, and many rich people fall backwards into a large inheritance without making any significant contributions to bettering society.

[Murray]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/27 ... n-mcintyre

I’m hardly republican , I’m 17 and have not voted yet.
And from working with these people I can tell you for a FACT many enjoy being given money for nothing.

Reason with this

New Mexico has high unemployment Correct? New Mexico gives out the most welfare Correct? New Mexico has high population of illegals correct?

Now why on earth do Mexicans have opportunities to receive jobs if the poor poor welfare lovers there are worker so hard to find work?


And perhaps we should create a topic forr this debate, seems to carry off the topic of christian genocide a bit

[Seraph]

You're probably right. I just saw that the thread was taking a political turn so I jumped in.
I've probably said all I need to say on the subject anyway.

I agree with the opening post that the murder of Christians in the USSR needs to be taught with more clarity in history classes. My guess as to why they don't teach us about it in American classrooms is because it doesn't affect American history to the same degree as the holocaust did, which helped drag us into WWII. It should be taught though because it is a significant historical event, it shows the horror of Totalitarianism, and it tears down the illusion that Christians have been the privilaged unpersecuted writers of history.

One thing I feel like saying though is that the genocide of Christians in the USSR was not due to atheists in power desiring to murder non-atheists for the sake of atheism. It was because of totalitarian governments trying to exterminate loyalty to anything other than the dictator, being it God or anything else. I don't feel that Atheism is to blame for the genocide of Christians in the Soviet Union any more than Christianity is responsible for the genocide of Muslims and Jews during the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. Not that I support Atheism but we should be fair in what ideologies we say lead inevitably to genocide. I don't think Atheism is bad because it results in genocidal maniacs, but because it destroys a persons relationship with God with the illusion that He doesn't exist. I do not think that if we gave Richard Dawkins the choice, he would have all Christians murdered.

So I disagree with that aspect of this thread.

[Murray]

I do not believe I ever said Stalin never killed Jews.

Yes, his purpose was to exterminate all religion, but the primary religion was Christianity and history classes refuse to teach this fact.

Although during the winter war, soviets did round up Christian towns of fins and massacre them. This honestly seems of no use to Stalin other than hatred toward Christians.

The other fact that is not taught is Hitler was an self admitted atheist who desired to eliminate all religion and create a religion/ cult of personality around himself. Why do we never learn of the German invasion of Greece when the SS killed almost every catholic priest they discovered and burned catholic churches?

It just nags at me that 1) people my age are to stoned and stupid to care about these things , and 2) they are never once discussed in a history class room.

[Jonouchi Katsuya]

Fundamentally, poverty is a denial of choices and opportunities, a violation of human dignity. It means lack of basic capacity to participate effectively in society. It means not having enough to feed and clothe a family, not having a school or clinic to go to, not having the land on which to grow one’s food or a job to earn one’s living, not having access to credit. It means insecurity, powerlessness and exclusion of individuals, households and communities. It means susceptibility to violence, and it often implies living in marginal or fragile environments, without access to clean water or sanitation. - United Nations.

In the United States I feel blessed that the Government has bestowed upon me most of these things as a poor person.

But now that I am 20 years old... I have experienced homelessness, violence against me, been sick and unable to see a doctor because even though I didn't have a job... I wasn't bad off enough to be on well-fare. If it weren't for food banks I would have starved. If I wasn't poor enough with being homeless with no job... then imagine how poor the people must be who are actually on welfare... imagine how bad off they must be... I can only imagine. As I with no income... am not important.

I have been poor... but because I completed high school I will never be in poverty. Because there are homeless shelters that will provide me with a shower and clean water, I will never be in poverty. Because I am blessed with happiness with in myself I will never be in poverty. Because my family loves me... and has with the goodness of their heart took me back in... after realizing I was unable to obtain a job after trying and trying and being put in danger along with my equally unimpressive husband... I will never be in poverty. I am filled with love. And the government has caught me as much as it can where my parents could not afford... (though I still can't go to college... no money).

But not everyone has family. Not everyone as access to everything. Not everyone is capable...

Speaking of things that teachers were unwilling to teach- Mine was unwilling to teach about evolution in Biology class. ^.^; You aren't the only one who is disappointed. But you took it upon yourself to find it out for yourself by either using the internet (set up by the government) or by using the local library (run by the government). You are kept safe by the police and firemen... and you can complain about your neighbor's lawn because of the government as well.

[Murray]

As much as I enjoy talking politics, I would much like to start a different thread for it , for this threads origonal purpose was to discuss the topic of christian genocide.

[SnowDrops]

Well I think what we've come to now is " 1) That's not quite true" and " 2) The US certainly isn't headed there".

[Murray]

Well I think what we've come to now is " 1) That's not quite true" and " 2) The US certainly isn't headed there".

I disagree and can we not continue this here, I hate debating politics, im not even sure why I started it on this thread, bad idea.

[SnowDrops]

Well I think what we've come to now is " 1) That's not quite true" and " 2) The US certainly isn't headed there".

I disagree and can we not continue this here, I hate debating politics, im not even sure why I started it on this thread, bad idea.

I think that was more or less what the thread was about.

[Murray]

^

Let me re-phrase, let's not discuss our nations current political nature