Can't we all get along?

[Gman]

He fufilled the law so we are not bound by it.

Let me clear this up... We are not bound by it meaning that we are "justified" by it, but that doesn't mean we can't be sanctified through it, meaning by walking in faith of it.

The law of Leviticus was given to Israel to set them apart from all the pagen nations that surrounded them. It was also stated that this is not the ideal situation but initially meeting Israel where they are and slowly improving their society. It was never meant to be permanent - Jesus changed all that. The law convicted the OT people of their sins - now we have the Holy Spirit to do that.

Not exactly... Jesus commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, Mark 12:31. Are you implying that we shouldn't? Also there are some commandments there were meant to last forever.. Such as: The Ten commandments, The Seventh Day Sabbath, The Biblical feasts, and keeping kosher. Why are we to keep them? Not to be justified by keeping them or for salvation, but for our sanctification. They are for our spiritual benefits and walking in obedience.

I have no problem with people following the Torah in their Christian beliefs - but as I stated before that is not what makes Christianity pure. Worshipping Jesus is what makes it pure. Traditions are ok to help with that - but even then there is a danger of the tradition becoming a chore and no real heart worship taking place.

Ok.. You state that worshiping Jesus is what makes us pure. How is that done? By mere words or actions? Also while traditions can be a chore that can happen with ANY tradition. That doesn't mean that the tradition is bad but the heart behind it. So? Have you ever been to a Christmas party and found it to be heartless?

Even in Acts there was a big debate about the Jewish Christians putting a yoke on the backs of Gentile Christians with all their laws and traditions - the conclusion being that they only had to abide a few of them - mainly the ones relating to sexual morality.

That doesn't mean that we throw the others out either. Those commands can still be applied to us spiritually in our daily walk. Let me give you an example. The Levitical sacrificial system can now be replaced by CHRIST who is our sacrifice who washes our sins away..

[Silvertusk]

He fufilled the law so we are not bound by it.

Let me clear this up... We are not bound by it meaning that we are "justified" by it, but that doesn't mean we can't be sanctified through it, meaning by walking in faith of it.

The law of Leviticus was given to Israel to set them apart from all the pagen nations that surrounded them. It was also stated that this is not the ideal situation but initially meeting Israel where they are and slowly improving their society. It was never meant to be permanent - Jesus changed all that. The law convicted the OT people of their sins - now we have the Holy Spirit to do that.

Not exactly... Jesus commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, Mark 12:31. Are you implying that we shouldn't? Also there are some commandments there were meant to last forever.. Such as: The Ten commandments, The Seventh Day Sabbath, The Biblical feasts, and keeping kosher. Why are we to keep them? Not to be justified by keeping them or for salvation, but for our sanctification. They are for our spiritual benefits and walking in obedience.

I have no problem with people following the Torah in their Christian beliefs - but as I stated before that is not what makes Christianity pure. Worshipping Jesus is what makes it pure. Traditions are ok to help with that - but even then there is a danger of the tradition becoming a chore and no real heart worship taking place.

Ok.. You state that worshiping Jesus is what makes us pure. How is that done? By mere words or actions? Also while traditions can be a chore that can happen with ANY tradition. That doesn't mean that the tradition is bad but the heart behind it. So? Have you ever been to a Christmas party and found it to be heartless?

Even in Acts there was a big debate about the Jewish Christians putting a yoke on the backs of Gentile Christians with all their laws and traditions - the conclusion being that they only had to abide a few of them - mainly the ones relating to sexual morality.

That doesn't mean that we throw the others out either. Those commands can still be applied to us spiritually in our daily walk. Let me give you an example. The Levitical sacrificial system can now be replaced by CHRIST who is our sacrifice who washes our sins away..

Like I said I don't have a problem with the way you abide by the Torah in worshipping Christ. What I am objecting to (and I may have imagined you stating this -so forgive me if I have) was that you said or implied that Christianity in its purest form involves following the practices of the Torah and I whoteheartedly disagree with that statement. We don't have to just eat kosher foods for instance - Peter affirmed that in his vision in Acts. We as Gentile Christians don't have to follow the regulations laid down by Leviticus as they were meant to apply to a holy nation surrounded by pagens societies. Although I do admit the Ten Commandments certainly hold - but even then not the way the Jews interpreted some of them in ancient Israel - especially the one about the Sabbath.

A Messianic Jew certainly does not have the right to say that his way of worshipping Christ is better than anyone elses.

Actually - just read back what you said - and you stated nothing of the sort - you said that

I believe that Christianity is Judaism in it's purest form.

And actually I agree with you so ignore the ramblings of this demented welshman!!!!!! However I still believe that practicing Christianity is also just fine, pure and spiritual without the practices you mentioned - each to their own I guess.

I'll shut up now.

Silvertusk.

[Gman]

Like I said I don't have a problem with the way you abide by the Torah in worshipping Christ. What I am objecting to (and I may have imagined you stating this -so forgive me if I have) was that you said or implied that Christianity in its purest form involves following the practices of the Torah and I whoteheartedly disagree with that statement.

Yes.. And my question to you was what does it mean to follow the practices of Torah?

We don't have to just eat kosher foods for instance - Peter affirmed that in his vision in Acts. We as Gentile Christians don't have to follow the regulations laid down by Leviticus as they were meant to apply to a holy nation surrounded by pagens societies. Although I do admit the Ten Commandments certainly hold - but even then not the way the Jews interpreted some of them in ancient Israel - especially the one about the Sabbath.

Agreed.. We don't have to do any of it. Especially for our salvation or justification before Him. However what I'm saying here is that we could learn many truths by understanding and practicing them in our lives too. Like the feasts.. Practicing the Jewish feast in light of Christ. It simply blows my mind to understand it with Christ at the center post. It augments Christ's work (Yeshua).

A Messianic Jew certainly does not have the right to say that his way of worshipping Christ is better than anyone elses.

No I never said that one has to convert to Messianic Judaism to experience Christ. That is an individual walk.. People are led by the Spirit where they should go. I wrote on this in a previous post.

Here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 30#p102665

Actually - just read back what you said - and you stated nothing of the sort - you said that

I believe that Christianity is Judaism in it's purest form.

And actually I agree with you so ignore the ramblings of this demented welshman!!!!!! However I still believe that practicing Christianity is also just fine, pure and spiritual without the practices you mentioned - each to their own I guess.

I'll shut up now.

Silvertusk.

Hey.. No hard feelings.. Judaism is merely a shell and isn't much without the light of Yeshua.