Evidence for God from Science

Thanks bippy

Facinating.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Thanks bippy

Facinating.

Heyy, you're the new anti-member!

Yes I noticed, lol.

Really I am not that bad.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Yes I noticed, lol.

Really I am not that bad.

I don't know, I mean you are only 2 posts away from having the number of the beast

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Thanks bippy

Facinating.

Welcome Daniel

Every year that goes by it seems like there is even more evidence for the shrouds authenticity. It's a shame that the next public display of the shroud won't be until the year 2025. I can understand why as they have allready states that lighted areas damages the image and they are trying their best to keep it preserved for future generations, but the sudarium is put on display 3 times a year in Spain .

Another area of research you guys should get into is the early iconograph pics of our lord made by the orthodox church, from the 6th century onward. Experts have also determined many points of congruence between the iconographs and the shroud image to the point of believing that the pics were drawn from the shroud image itself. The shroud in the 6th century was also known through the orthodox church as the mandylion, the image of edessa and the shroud of Christ. Ian Wilson is the expert in the historic evidence of the shroud so any of his books are great.

The blood found on both relics has been determined to be type ab, pitting the man on the shroud from the area of ancient Israel .

The shroud of Turin is the only 2d image on earth with 3G topographical information on it . The vp8 image analyzer is used by NASA to map out topographical images taken from the moon and mars, if you pass any 2d photograph through it, the image is mangled because there is no 3G info on it. When the shroud was passed through the vp8 image analyzer the scientists at NASA were stunned as it came out a perfect 3G image, the only kind on this earth. With over 300,00 man hours put in by scientists from all over the world it us the most studied relic in history.

John jacksons wife Debbie was also influenced by the shroud. She was orthodox Jewish and ended up converting to Christianity . The inventor of the vp8 image analyzer Shumacher (forgot his first name but I believe it is Pete), was so impacted by the shroud 3G image that he ended up becoming a catholic deacon in new Mexico . He also has a shroud of Turin center which I believe is open to the public there.

I have from time to time corresponded with one of his old students but financial trouble and the fact that my mom has been in a coma for over 6 weeks now from a massive stroke have kept me from visiting the center.
There is also an advanced course in Turin that is being offered on the shroud that is a 1 year course where they will bring in some if the top scientists in the world that have studied the shroud. I hope to take that course in a few years.

If I could ask one favor of you all, could you please pray for my mom:(
God bless you all

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Yes I noticed, lol.

Really I am not that bad.

Hehe, I'm just gonna add an extra 1 to that, just kiddin lol

If I could ask one favor of you all, could you please pray for my mom:(
God bless you all

Sure thing buddy.

Thank you Daniel
God bless

I don't need a shroud or any physical relic as proof GOD exists.
Look at a baby and you see GOD,
Look at a bug and you see HIM.
All science has yet to explain life, at what exact point inert matter becomes alive.
Something as simple as a cockroach, do you know what kind of computer processing power you need to make a functional robot cockroach. Something that does all the things that insect does?
If you know a little about programming and coding, you most likely agree, the program would be massive (Digital) I am talking about stimuli the roach reacts to, the functions of self preservation., procreation, nourishment gathering, leg control, etc.
Now another subject : Poop, yep you heard right. The brown stuff you leave behind after a meal.
Would you believe that it would take a chemical factory of considerable size to produce a poor analog?
How easy would recycling be , if we could build an artificial digestion system. Everything useful is broken down and the rest collected in a bio degradable mass (I am not kidding , Belgian Scientists built the first "S...t machine. A huge contraption)
Yet you eat a handful of rice and get enough energy to think, walk, move items from A to B, drive a car. learn, procreate and a myriad things,
My point is (and I am a PhD level scientist) that in all our self important know it all perception of the world, we really can't explain very much.
Ask any scientist to really explain to you such basic things as "Electricity", "Magnetism" , Molecular cohesion, Gravity or the real difference between mass and weight.
Don't stop at the standard answers. We know what electricity does, we can quantify it only if we use another very little understood aspect of the Universe: Time.
But no scientist can really tell you what it is. (If they could there be no more cables and Zero Point devices in every energy consuming machine)

No I don't need a Shroud, I don't need "splinters of the one true cross" or the bones of saints, these are crutches , man made things to ask for more offerings to built more opulent churches.
Our God is the only GOD that reaches out to us, all the others idols want you to follow them.
And even as a skeptic you can't deny that there is incredible wisdom in the words our savior spoke while he was on Earth.
They say; "Open your heart to Jesus" I say open your eyes and ears and analyze his words free of any religious doctrine and you just might become a true Christian following the one "true" Church which is described and proclaimed by Jesus.
No popes, no Theologians needed.

The way GOD reveals himself to you beyond any Earthly things and evidence, by FAITH alone.

VR

Welcome Vanessa to the forum.
Hope you enjoy it here.

Btw, this is our thread for introduction of new members.

I don't need a shroud or any physical relic as proof GOD exists.
Look at a baby and you see GOD,
Look at a bug and you see HIM.
All science has yet to explain life, at what exact point inert matter becomes alive.
Something as simple as a cockroach, do you know what kind of computer processing power you need to make a functional robot cockroach. Something that does all the things that insect does?
If you know a little about programming and coding, you most likely agree, the program would be massive (Digital) I am talking about stimuli the roach reacts to, the functions of self preservation., procreation, nourishment gathering, leg control, etc.
Now another subject : Poop, yep you heard right. The brown stuff you leave behind after a meal.
Would you believe that it would take a chemical factory of considerable size to produce a poor analog?
How easy would recycling be , if we could build an artificial digestion system. Everything useful is broken down and the rest collected in a bio degradable mass (I am not kidding , Belgian Scientists built the first "S...t machine. A huge contraption)
Yet you eat a handful of rice and get enough energy to think, walk, move items from A to B, drive a car. learn, procreate and a myriad things,
My point is (and I am a PhD level scientist) that in all our self important know it all perception of the world, we really can't explain very much.
Ask any scientist to really explain to you such basic things as "Electricity", "Magnetism" , Molecular cohesion, Gravity or the real difference between mass and weight.
Don't stop at the standard answers. We know what electricity does, we can quantify it only if we use another very little understood aspect of the Universe: Time.
But no scientist can really tell you what it is. (If they could there be no more cables and Zero Point devices in every energy consuming machine)

No I don't need a Shroud, I don't need "splinters of the one true cross" or the bones of saints, these are crutches , man made things to ask for more offerings to built more opulent churches.
Our God is the only GOD that reaches out to us, all the others idols want you to follow them.
And even as a skeptic you can't deny that there is incredible wisdom in the words our savior spoke while he was on Earth.
They say; "Open your heart to Jesus" I say open your eyes and ears and analyze his words free of any religious doctrine and you just might become a true Christian following the one "true" Church which is described and proclaimed by Jesus.
No popes, no Theologians needed.

The way GOD reveals himself to you beyond any Earthly things and evidence, by FAITH alone.

VR

My, Vanessa, that was quite a first post! And, welcome to the forum!

I'd suggest your future thoughts on the Shroud go to the far more active and informative thread on it: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 78#p165778 Actually, that links to the most recent posts on our Shroud thread - it actually begins here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... ?f=6&t=225

One thought: IF the Shroud IS authentic - and there is are considerable and astonishing evidences that it may well be - then it is NOT just a "crutch," but one more powerful evidence God preserved to bolster faith in our Risen Lord. Scripture tells us God gave us miraculous things (in miracles and the incredible things in the Creation, some of which you mention) to point to His existence and awesome creative and sustaining power, to build stronger faith in believers, and to leave powerful evidences and testimonies to move unbelievers to pursuing it. Read carefully through the thread I linked, and you may see why many here find credibility in the Shroud.

Again, welcome!

We should always be careful with "blanket statements" like "God reveals Himself by FAITH Alone".
God reveals Himself to WHOM He wishes, HOW He wishes.
Some have found God in God's "hand print" in nature and the universe ( natural revelation), some by reason and some by faith and others by divine revelation.
In short, God speaks to people on whatever way God feels works for them.

Paul is absolutely correct - God uses all kinds of people, experiences, things, uses all sorts of knowledge and evidences, and situations, to bring people to faith in Him.

Came across this link of testimonies of people coming to Christ in the most unlikely ways and in places we might least imagine: http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani ... today.html

I was particularly struck by the atheist from France and his story!

Philip wrote:Paul is absolutely correct - God uses all kinds of people, experiences, things, uses all sorts of knowledge and evidences, and situations, to bring people to faith in Him.

Came across this link of testimonies of people coming to Christ in the most unlikely ways and in places we might least imagine: http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani ... today.html

I was particularly struck by the atheist from France and his story!

The lesbian convert story was quite moving also.

Paul: The lesbian convert story was quite moving also.

Absolutely! I'll have to read through that story again, myself! And just think of all of the friendships and other relationships her conversion probably cost her. Her story shows that God can change ANYONE who wants to find the truth of things and is willing to listen to and obey The Truth as He draws and enlightens them.