Jews

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:14 am

Kmart, did you read the words from the bible that Jesus himself uttered? He came for the world, not for the jews. If anything, he came for the jews last.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:59 am

Mastermind, Jesus came first for the Jews. He was the messiah promised to them by GOD It was not until the book of acts, when GOD gave peter the vision (of animals coming down from heaven, acts 10:9-23) then the followers of Christ started to reach out to the gentiles.

Plus, Acts 1:8
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
(KJV)
Jerusalem first (Jews) then Judea (more Jews) then Samaria (half Jews) then the rest of the earth (gentiles)

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:24 pm

*sigh* I am really sorry pax

but i can't read yoru posts

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:18 pm

paxChristos, the quote I gave you is from the First gospel(matthew i think). That's the exact impression I got when i read it before this topic: That God was fed up with the Jews and that He would now give other nations a chance.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:40 pm

the verse i gave is from Acts 1:8 (check it out on http://www.biblegateway.com)

If GOD was annoyed at the Jews, then how do you explain these verses

Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
(NIV) Courtesy of http://www.biblegateway.com
-paxChristos

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:18 pm

Kurieuo I presented what you wrote to him and this is the response I got:

"Despite the mistranslation and the bad context I'll just show you the three verses before the part you quoted.

QUOTE
28
And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down, and to overthrow and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith HaShem.
29
In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.'
30
But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man that eateth the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. (Jerimiah 31:28-30)

As you can see, the concept of individual acountability is brought up again. The way "the system" currently works is that in theory you can be punished for the actions of your parents. This is considered unjust but necessary. In the end of days, you will be punished not for the actions of your parents but for your own actions, and each man will die of thier own sins.

To me this is direct refutaion to the concept, "My son will die for your sins."

As for the concept of the sun and light, that makes sense to me, but the also semms to remove the divine concept from G-d, and thus is not really what we are speaking about. Many Christian sects do not see Jesus as BEING God.

As for the concept of Jesus being our Bail bondsman.
1) It says you must be related, not that you must be from the same community. Only Adam, the first man would be able to say "I am related to all of humanity." Or possibly Noah, but probabbly not.

2)I am not a slave to sin. I have free choice. There is no concept of "Original sin" in Jewish thought.

3) You are using different definitions of the word free. One who is free from sin would in hebrew be Aiy Averah. However the word free here means free from captivitiy which would be the Hebrew word of Horin, or another hebrew word that I forget now, that specifically means jailed or imprisoned. Another use of the word free would be free will which in hebrew is bechirah chofshith

4) Commiting a transgression does not put you in "debt" The concept of sin in Judaism is really more a concept of Cause and affect. When G-d lays out the plan in the Torah he says "If you do this, then this will happen" "If you honour your parents you will have long life" "If you don't follow the laws of agriculture, you will not get rain."

5) The only part of the deal that Jews have had to do to make sure the contract is not null and void is that the Parents teach the commandments to thier children and that boys get circumsized. In as much as I have learned about Judaism, I would say that part of the covenant is being upheld. "

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:49 pm

Tell the bugger that the Bible has suffered from the least mistranslations of any other work. I've read it all over, 99.5% of what we have now is the same as in the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient sources, and as this site says, it's even better maintained than the Illiad at only 95%! (NIV, on the other hand, is screwing around by making God's gender neutral I've heard, and instead of Father, it's mother-Father, and such weird stuff....)

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:53 pm

perhaps it should say parent!

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:57 pm

But God is the Father, He's a masculine figure. He's not either/or.

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:02 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:But God is the Father, He's a masculine figure. He's not either/or.

He is a spirit, we say He because we aquaint he as stength.
But I am only a baby immature Christian so what would I know

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:08 pm

I'm also going for God as a male figure because Jesus was a man...obviously. Don't ever think someone else is right on the basis that he's older than you or he's been studying something more than you.

August · Post by **August** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:12 pm

NIV, on the other hand, is screwing around by making God's gender neutral I've heard, and instead of Father, it's mother-Father, and such weird stuff.

I read the NIV all the time, I have not noticed it, probably because I'm not looking for it. Do you perhaps have some examples?

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:12 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:I'm also going for God as a male figure because Jesus was a man...obviously. Don't ever think someone else is right on the basis that he's older than you or he's been studying something more than you.

good point, but I am talking in the way that I am a new christian therefore baby christian therefore immature christian.
If it is our spirits that are made in the image of god, and there are male and female spirits, I can only see that the spirit is not either male or female, it is our earthly bodies that are. Our earthly bodies are not made in the image of god, because god doesn't need a earthly body.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:36 pm

I don't have NIV, it's what I've heard. I'm trying to look it up, but I'm having difficulties....

August · Post by **August** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:38 pm

Ah, spreading a rumor then?