Evidence for God from Science

snorider wrote:I'm not quite sure how you are a "Annhilationist", Hell wasn't mentioned in the old testament,

Hell: Deut 32:22 (KJV), 2Sam 22:6, Job 11:8, Job 26:6, Psalm 16:10, Psalm 18:5, Psalm 55:15, Psalm 86:13, Psalm 116:3, Psalm 139:8, Prov 5:5, Prov 7:27, Prov 9:18, Prov 15:11, Prov 15:24, Prov 23:14, Prov 27:20, Isa 5:14, Isa 14:9, Isa 14:15, Isa 28:15, Isa 28:18, Isa 57:9, Eze 31:16, Eze 31:17, Eze 32:21, Eze 32:27, Amos 9:2, Jonah 2:2, Hab 2:5.

Hell definition from Strong's Concordance:

7585
sh'owl
sheh-ole'
or shol {sheh-ole'}; from 'sha'al' (7592); Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit.

snorider wrote:if we allow our children to accept an idea without evidence

The Christian belief system, especially the resurrection, is the most well documented event in the history of the ancient world. You evidently believe that Julius Caesar, the Roman Emperor existed. There are only 9 documents claiming he existed and the earliest one was written a thousand years after he died. I believe there are close to 12,000 documents found in various churches and museums around the world from the first three centuries AD testifying that Jesus Christ existed.

snorider wrote:what is to keep them from excepting other ideas that are not also not based on evidence?

You mean like yours? So if I followed your line of thought it would go something like this:

Since there is no god everything is permissible.
Since science is true there is no god.
Therefore since science is true, everything is permitted.

snorider wrote:Thank you for your reply, Scientifically prayer has been studied with controlled groups and has been proven not to work.

Actually, there are a number of studies out over the last few decades that disprove your Wikipedia article. People who pray are generally, happier, healthier and live longer.

snorider wrote:but I will think for you

You don't have to think for me. I spent 8 years in university here in Canada being schooled by some amazing professors. I managed to gain a Social Science degree with a minor in History, a Masters and a D.Phil degree in Theology with a lot of hard work and study and I presently work with the developmentally handicapped, sort of the polar opposite of the evolutionary concept of survival of the fittest. I am into the protection of the weakest.

You are very lucky someone like me believes in God. Because I would be the worst kind of atheist! But from your posts you don't strike me as an atheist Sno, just a disgruntled anti-theist and a history denier that really doesn't put their money where their mouth is. You evidently don't believe in Christ so you must not believe in Satan either. Satan would like nothing more than a person like you to wimp out and not be controversial against Satan's conspiracy. Do you know what Satan's conspiracy is Sno? That Jesus Christ is not God the only Son of God and that His Word doesn't matter. I tell you what. When you reach the level of education I have, lets have a proper discussion. I have had more intelligent discussions with people far less educated than you, so do yourself a favor and don't even assume to try and think for me.

I am absolutely appalled at some of the recent additions here, abusive and down right disgusting behaviour.

Do people ever read the forum guidelines....................................

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I am absolutely appalled at some of the recent additions here, abusive and down right disgusting behaviour.

Do people ever read the forum guidelines....................................

That's why you're here Daniel. For balance. You know...yin and yang.

RickD wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:I am absolutely appalled at some of the recent additions here, abusive and down right disgusting behaviour.

Do people ever read the forum guidelines....................................

That's why you're here Daniel. For balance. You know...yin and yang.

I have my bad days, but I never try to insult people on purpose.......

Katabole wrote:

snorider wrote:I'm not quite sure how you are a "Annhilationist", Hell wasn't mentioned in the old testament,

Hell: Deut 32:22 (KJV), 2Sam 22:6, Job 11:8, Job 26:6, Psalm 16:10, Psalm 18:5, Psalm 55:15, Psalm 86:13, Psalm 116:3, Psalm 139:8, Prov 5:5, Prov 7:27, Prov 9:18, Prov 15:11, Prov 15:24, Prov 23:14, Prov 27:20, Isa 5:14, Isa 14:9, Isa 14:15, Isa 28:15, Isa 28:18, Isa 57:9, Eze 31:16, Eze 31:17, Eze 32:21, Eze 32:27, Amos 9:2, Jonah 2:2, Hab 2:5.

Hell definition from Strong's Concordance:

7585
sh'owl
sheh-ole'
or shol {sheh-ole'}; from 'sha'al' (7592); Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit.

I stand corrected, hell is mention in the old testament, I personally haven't read the old testament.
I picked at random 28:18
http://www.qbible.com/hebrew-old-testam ... ah/28.html

Thank you for clarifying.

snorider wrote:if we allow our children to accept an idea without evidence

Katabole wrote: The Christian belief system, especially the resurrection, is the most well documented event in the history of the ancient world. You evidently believe that Julius Caesar, the Roman Emperor existed. There are only 9 documents claiming he existed and the earliest one was written a thousand years after he died. I believe there are close to 12,000 documents found in various churches and museums around the world from the first three centuries AD testifying that Jesus Christ existed.

Let me clarify,
I have a problem with the Bible's contents and the influence it has on young ones. Noah's Ark, the flood, Adam and Eve.


There is a reason why a book with 12,000 documents found in various churches and museums around the world are not being taught in any school around the world.

Why isn't the Bible 12,000 pages long? Why not even half that? Picking an choosing what should be there? Odd.

snorider wrote:what is to keep them from excepting other ideas that are not also not based on evidence?

Katabole wrote: You mean like yours? So if I followed your line of thought it would go something like this:

Since there is no god everything is permissible.
Since science is true there is no god.
Therefore since science is true, everything is permitted.

Wait a minute, I'm not claiming there is a God. If you want to claim something that's fine, there better be evidence for it. There is more evidence for the Apollo God than there is for the Christian God.

If you want to go by numbers world wide, Christianity is losing.
Do you think the billions of others are delusional? They don't feel the exact same thing that you feel?
That obviously isn't true if they kill themselves for that feeling.

snorider wrote:Thank you for your reply, Scientifically prayer has been studied with controlled groups and has been proven not to work.

Katabole wrote:Actually, there are a number of studies out over the last few decades that disprove your Wikipedia article. People who pray are generally, happier, healthier and live longer.

Psychologically sure, shopping and exercising can make a person happier and healthier as well.

snorider wrote:but I will think for you

Katabole wrote: You don't have to think for me. I spent 8 years in university here in Canada being schooled by some amazing professors. I managed to gain a Social Science degree with a minor in History, a Masters and a D.Phil degree in Theology with a lot of hard work and study and I presently work with the developmentally handicapped, sort of the polar opposite of the evolutionary concept of survival of the fittest. I am into the protection of the weakest.

Given your education, do you agree with teaching creationism alongside evolution in public schools?

Katabole wrote: You are very lucky someone like me believes in God. Because I would be the worst kind of atheist! But from your posts you don't strike me as an atheist Sno, just a disgruntled anti-theist and a history denier that really doesn't put their money where their mouth is. You evidently don't believe in Christ so you must not believe in Satan either. Satan would like nothing more than a person like you to wimp out and not be controversial against Satan's conspiracy. Do you know what Satan's conspiracy is Sno? That Jesus Christ is not God the only Son of God and that His Word doesn't matter. I tell you what. When you reach the level of education I have, lets have a proper discussion. I have had more intelligent discussions with people far less educated than you, so do yourself a favor and don't even assume to try and think for me.

Satan's conspiracy? Education you have?

You are a better communicator than me, I give you that, your education is primarily in Theology.
You have me beat hands down when it comes to Biblical history. I haven't even read the Old Testament.

I thank you for replying to this thread. Given your background I would like to ask you a few questions.
Myself being circumcised and baptized, forced to pray, forced to go to church everyday before I could even comprehend what was going on.
First do you agree with that? Why?

Shouldn't a child at least have the choice? Why do most religions heavily force religion on children? Even before they can speak?

In the Christian religion, do you agree with baptism before they are able to comprehend what it means?

Also your thought on physically mutilating a baby (circumcision) in the name of religion?

I would also like to ask you about Jesus Christ, he was a human, why did he say "Father why have you forsaken me"?

Thanks,
Jordan

I would also like to ask you about Jesus Christ, he was a human, why did he say "Father why have you forsaken me"?

Your question was answered at the start of this thread, why do you continue to run with this question when it has been refuted already, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 and by doing so he was claiming victory.

I have a problem with the Bible's contents and the influence it has on young ones. Noah's Ark, the flood, Adam and Eve.

You have a problem with its content yet you have not even read it,

I personally haven't read the old testament.

I would imagine you have an issue with the young earth interpretation of events, have you ever considered exploring the old earth interpretation or even theistic evolution interpretation.

Myself being circumcised and baptized, forced to pray, forced to go to church everyday before I could even comprehend what was going on.
First do you agree with that? Why?

Shouldn't a child at least have the choice? Why do most religions heavily force religion on children? Even before they can speak?

In the Christian religion, do you agree with baptism before they are able to comprehend what it means?

Also your thought on physically mutilating a baby (circumcision) in the name of religion?

I grew up in a Christian home, I am not circumcised nor was I baptised until I decided what I wanted to believe, I was never indoctrinated to believe anything and was free to make my own choices. It is sad that this has happened to you but this only proves that man is corrupt and sinful and is not a reflection on Gods character.

do you agree with teaching creationism alongside evolution in public schools?

Nope, my kids go to a secular school and they have religious education classes there which are optional, science should be taught in the science room, creation should be taught in the religious education room, funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

On a side note on circumcision, during the great wars it became popular in western culture to remove the foreskin due to the nature of trench warfare for sanitary reasons and not for religious reasons, this continued in wetern culture to this day, mainly due to aesthetic reasons or because they wated their kids to look like their father. I know many people who have no connection to religion who have had the chop, what do you think about mutilating the human body for aesthetic reasons??


Dan

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

I would also like to ask you about Jesus Christ, he was a human, why did he say "Father why have you forsaken me"?

Your question was answered at the start of this thread, why do you continue to run with this question when it has been refuted already, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 and by doing so he was claiming victory.

Let's read this very closely:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.

As it continues, he seems to change his mind. He literally was questioning his "father". We won't go into the trinity complex.

I have a problem with the Bible's contents and the influence it has on young ones. Noah's Ark, the flood, Adam and Eve.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:You have a problem with its content yet you have not even read it,

I personally haven't read the old testament.

I've read the New Testament, not the Old Testament.

Danieltwotwenty wrote: I would imagine you have an issue with the young earth interpretation of events, have you ever considered exploring the old earth interpretation or even theistic evolution interpretation.

Why didn't you quote my question?

The Bible is static, it cannot be changed, it cannot be challenged. Based on Faith.
Faith is not based on evidence.
Science is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.
Lets leave it to those qualified, academically.

Myself being circumcised and baptized, forced to pray, forced to go to church everyday before I could even comprehend what was going on.
First do you agree with that? Why?

Shouldn't a child at least have the choice? Why do most religions heavily force religion on children? Even before they can speak?

In the Christian religion, do you agree with baptism before they are able to comprehend what it means?

Also your thought on physically mutilating a baby (circumcision) in the name of religion?

Danieltwotwenty wrote: I grew up in a Christian home, I am not circumcised nor was I baptised until I decided what I wanted to believe, I was never indoctrinated to believe anything and was free to make my own choices. It is sad that this has happened to you but this only proves that man is corrupt and sinful and is not a reflection on Gods character.

do you agree with teaching creationism alongside evolution in public schools?

Nope, my kids go to a secular school and they have religious education classes there which are optional, science should be taught in the science room, creation should be taught in the religious education room, funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

Well, thank you, all children should be able to decide for themselves. I respect you for that, and wish more would follow your example.

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

It would be great if most Christians sent their kids to experience other religions so they could decide what was best for them.

Thanks,
Jordan

snorider wrote:It would be great if most Christians sent their kids to experience other religions so they could decide what was best for them.

Children deciding what is best for them? Are you serious? ...or did you type that without thinking it through first?

FL

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

What!!! did you read what I wrote......

funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

I have highlighted it for you so you understand exactly what I said.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

What!!! did you read what I wrote......

funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

I have highlighted it for you so you understand exactly what I said.

Would you mind responding to the rest of my response?

Thanks,
Jordan

snorider wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

What!!! did you read what I wrote......

funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

I have highlighted it for you so you understand exactly what I said.

Would you mind responding to the rest of my response?

Thanks,
Jordan

What are you talking about, there was nothing else to respond to.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

snorider wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

What!!! did you read what I wrote......

funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

I have highlighted it for you so you understand exactly what I said.

Would you mind responding to the rest of my response?

Thanks,
Jordan

What are you talking about, there was nothing else to respond to.

I asked many questions, you answered one about Atheist neighbors and put it in bold print. Cherry picking I see.

Well, thank you, all children should be able to decide for themselves. I respect you for that, and wish more would follow your example.

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

It would be great if most Christians sent their kids to experience other religions so they could decide what was best for them.

Thanks,
Jordan

Above is your post, where may I ask are your questions?

All I see are three statements, the second one is not true because that was not what I had said, that is why I highlighted it in response.


Dan

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

Well, thank you, all children should be able to decide for themselves. I respect you for that, and wish more would follow your example.

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

It would be great if most Christians sent their kids to experience other religions so they could decide what was best for them.

Thanks,
Jordan

Above is your post, where may I ask are your questions?

All I see are three statements, the second one is not true because that was not what I had said, that is why I highlighted it in response.


Dan

snorider wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

I would also like to ask you about Jesus Christ, he was a human, why did he say "Father why have you forsaken me"?

----------------------------------------------------------------









Your question was answered at the start of this thread, why do you continue to run with this question when it has been refuted already, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 and by doing so he was claiming victory.

Let's read this very closely:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.

As it continues, he seems to change his mind. He literally was questioning his "father". We won't go into the trinity complex.

I have a problem with the Bible's contents and the influence it has on young ones. Noah's Ark, the flood, Adam and Eve.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:You have a problem with its content yet you have not even read it,

I personally haven't read the old testament.

I've read the New Testament, not the Old Testament.

Danieltwotwenty wrote: I would imagine you have an issue with the young earth interpretation of events, have you ever considered exploring the old earth interpretation or even theistic evolution interpretation.

Why didn't you quote my question?

The Bible is static, it cannot be changed, it cannot be challenged. Based on Faith.
Faith is not based on evidence.
Science is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.
Lets leave it to those qualified, academically.

Myself being circumcised and baptized, forced to pray, forced to go to church everyday before I could even comprehend what was going on.
First do you agree with that? Why?

Shouldn't a child at least have the choice? Why do most religions heavily force religion on children? Even before they can speak?

In the Christian religion, do you agree with baptism before they are able to comprehend what it means?

Also your thought on physically mutilating a baby (circumcision) in the name of religion?

Danieltwotwenty wrote: I grew up in a Christian home, I am not circumcised nor was I baptised until I decided what I wanted to believe, I was never indoctrinated to believe anything and was free to make my own choices. It is sad that this has happened to you but this only proves that man is corrupt and sinful and is not a reflection on Gods character.

do you agree with teaching creationism alongside evolution in public schools?

Nope, my kids go to a secular school and they have religious education classes there which are optional, science should be taught in the science room, creation should be taught in the religious education room, funnily enough my neighbours who are atheist send their kids to religious education because they want them to make up their own minds ( I actually think that is really cool and open minded of them.).

Well, thank you, all children should be able to decide for themselves. I respect you for that, and wish more would follow your example.

As far as your Atheist neighbors, honestly, I'm not sure what to say. I'm not quite sure why you're against an Atheist family sending their children to a religious school/class/church?

It would be great if most Christians sent their kids to experience other religions so they could decide what was best for them.

Thanks,
Jordan

Are you drunk?