Re: Trinitarian Theology
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:34 am
I bet Angels are just like us...us as in our spirits not our flesh. They are spirits that have learned and experienced all things and made it back to unity with the father and no longer NEED to incarnate. That is our goal also. In Paradise we will find out. If they get ressurected bodies, they are like us, if they don't then they are different somehow.
The way I understand it is that the spirit that was in the man Y'shua is not one and the same as God the Father. Y'shua is his own spirit, his own being, but is in unity with the Father. I think statements like "God in the flesh" and "the three are one" describing who he is are confusing. It makes it sound like God as a whole left the heavenly realm and incarnated here on earth. Scripture is quite clear that Y'shua was chosen long ago to be SENT to earth as savior. He was sent by the Father, therefore cannot also be the Father. Y'shua became the only begotten when he was BAPTISED not when he was born. It was his uniting with the holy spirit of the Father that was the being "born from above" that he told Nicodemus, the Apostles and all of us about.
here's some food for thought. If Y'shua was the almighty in any form, then the crucifixion wasn't much of a sacrifice was it? Think about it. If you are the immortal, all powerful Creator that can incarnate or manifest into anything at any time and own all of creation, then living one short human life and being murdered on purpose isn't giving up anything. However if you are not all those things and could not incarnate or manifest at will , grew up as a normal human being with all the limitations then gained ultimate knowledge, experience, power And had the ability and opportunity to be ruler of the world (brings up point 2) but willingly gave it up for other people to also gain what you have gained, WOW now that is a true sacrifice. When Y'shua returns he will gain all the things he gave up in his 1st century life. He will be king of kings and lord of lords, but he will still be identified as seperate from God the father.
while speaking of being ruler of the world, what did Satan tempt Y'shua with in the desert? If he was the Father then this temptation would be pointless since he would already own all of creation. Someone offering you what you already own is not tempting. It was Y'shua's destiny to be ruler of earth and what Satan was really testing was his ability to wait for God's appointed time. The other issue is what Satan asked for in exchange for earth's rulership. He wanted Y'shua to worship him. If Y'shua was the Almighty this would also be pointless and besides it wasn't Satan's goal to be greater than God, that's an impossibility, He wants to be equal to God and draw worship away from the Father and to himself.
If there is a heirarchy in heaven, then certainly Y'shua is number two and from what Enoch says, he's been there for a long time. I think I'm in agreement with most here that the trinity is closer to the truth than oneness, but still fails to really describe God and his relationship to his creation. it will probably be something we continue to learn and grow in while spending eternity with him in paradise.
The way I understand it is that the spirit that was in the man Y'shua is not one and the same as God the Father. Y'shua is his own spirit, his own being, but is in unity with the Father. I think statements like "God in the flesh" and "the three are one" describing who he is are confusing. It makes it sound like God as a whole left the heavenly realm and incarnated here on earth. Scripture is quite clear that Y'shua was chosen long ago to be SENT to earth as savior. He was sent by the Father, therefore cannot also be the Father. Y'shua became the only begotten when he was BAPTISED not when he was born. It was his uniting with the holy spirit of the Father that was the being "born from above" that he told Nicodemus, the Apostles and all of us about.
here's some food for thought. If Y'shua was the almighty in any form, then the crucifixion wasn't much of a sacrifice was it? Think about it. If you are the immortal, all powerful Creator that can incarnate or manifest into anything at any time and own all of creation, then living one short human life and being murdered on purpose isn't giving up anything. However if you are not all those things and could not incarnate or manifest at will , grew up as a normal human being with all the limitations then gained ultimate knowledge, experience, power And had the ability and opportunity to be ruler of the world (brings up point 2) but willingly gave it up for other people to also gain what you have gained, WOW now that is a true sacrifice. When Y'shua returns he will gain all the things he gave up in his 1st century life. He will be king of kings and lord of lords, but he will still be identified as seperate from God the father.
while speaking of being ruler of the world, what did Satan tempt Y'shua with in the desert? If he was the Father then this temptation would be pointless since he would already own all of creation. Someone offering you what you already own is not tempting. It was Y'shua's destiny to be ruler of earth and what Satan was really testing was his ability to wait for God's appointed time. The other issue is what Satan asked for in exchange for earth's rulership. He wanted Y'shua to worship him. If Y'shua was the Almighty this would also be pointless and besides it wasn't Satan's goal to be greater than God, that's an impossibility, He wants to be equal to God and draw worship away from the Father and to himself.
If there is a heirarchy in heaven, then certainly Y'shua is number two and from what Enoch says, he's been there for a long time. I think I'm in agreement with most here that the trinity is closer to the truth than oneness, but still fails to really describe God and his relationship to his creation. it will probably be something we continue to learn and grow in while spending eternity with him in paradise.
