Evidence for God from Science

Thanks for your replies oldman.

oldman wrote:
The Son of God came from His Father before anything was made. From the Father and the Son came their perfect and eternal love for each other. Their love is their endless joy in their pure and perfect caring, sharing and giving to each other all that they are and all that they care to create. The Son came from the Father and He naturally looks up to His Father, but without the Father's only eternal child there would be no possibility for an eternal God known as "love", "God is love", as Scripture clearly proclaims, and this love cannot exist with one person alone.

From the underlined part of what you wrote, could you tell me what you mean when you said, "The Son of God came from His Father before anything was made", and, "The Son came from the Father"? If the Son came from the Father, was the Son created? Was the Son not eternally existing, if He came from the Father?

This love, this God called love, needs at least two free thinking reasoning minds

The Father and the Son, are two free thinking reasoning minds? Then, if there are two distinct "minds", are the Father and Son two gods? Is the Father God, and the Son, (who you said came from the Father), not God?

B. W. wrote:If this spirit can die as you claim, then it cannot be the Holy Spirit.


oldman wrote:
I disagree, the Spirit of truth God gave to Adam died in Adam the moment Adam gave into Satan's temptation and valued his own desire to know evil above his Father's warning. This perfect Spirit that was sovereign in the then perfect Adam was corrupted into a spirit of lies and rebellion against God. The pure and perfect Spirit that was the innermost ruling character in Adam had died in Adam.

Are you saying the Holy Spirit died? Or are you saying the Holy Spirit died in Adam? Meaning the HS left Adam? Or, the HS, which was part of Adam, actually died?

B. W. wrote:Lesson: to be born again refers to how the Holy Spirit enters a person's heart and sanctifies (righteousness - note 2 Thess 2:13),teaches, convicts, and reveals judgment to those whom are born again.

Who is the Holy Spirit to you?



oldman wrote:
He is the one who guides me and enlightens me.

Only the Spirit that is faithful to love unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers.

This Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth simply because no one can even begin to explain an alternative in which we all can trust.
Can they Rick?

oldman,

Who do you say the Holy Spirit is? Is the HS God's spirit? Is the HS God?

oldman,

I hope you understand that in order for me to be able to answer your questions that you asked before:

Now RickD please give a clear answer, was it good or evil that led me to write down these words?

and

What is your answer then Rick? Do you also see my understanding of God and His promised paradise as the devil's work?

I need to understand exactly what you're saying.

RickD wrote: I need to understand exactly what you're saying.

To be honest with you Rick right now I don't think you ever will understand. Thank you anyway for this opportunity to help reveal the truth a little more, I would have liked to continue this conversation but if you cannot understand and acknowledge the simple truth in this statement, then ultimately we shall have nothing in common...

Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who knew Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even to be tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still. This Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth because no one can explain an alternative in which we all can trust.

My God is the God of reason, I am sorry you cannot say the same.

Oldman,

I think it needs to be clear if we're talking about the same Jesus, and the same spirit. That's why you need to answer my questions. With your answers, it seems you're talking about an anti-Christ spirit. I've been willing to give you the benefit of doubt, while asking you to clarify yourself by answering the questions that B. W. and I asked you.

Please answer the questions in my last post.

Thank you

oldman,

You are talking about a spirit. And as believers, we are told in 1 John 4:1-3, to test the spirits to see if they are from God.

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

That's why you were asked those questions.

And also, scripture says in John 14:6:

Jesus * said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

It seems you are trying a different path to God. A path different than what scripture says. Instead of coming to God through Christ, you are claiming to come to God through cannabis.

Again, please answer the questions I asked in my post above.

Thank You

Have you seen this post of mine? Any reaction?

1over137 wrote:

oldman wrote:

1over137 wrote:Hi oldman,

May i ask why you keep claiming that God lead you to canabis when it seems to be in contradiction with the Bible?

Hello 1over137,

God is the author of our destinies, now before we go any further please tell me, where exactly does it explain that eating cannabis is in contradiction with the Bible?

.

It seems to be in contradiction.

Bible on being sober-minded:
1 Corinthians 15:34; 1 Thessalonians 5:4-8; 2 Timothy 4:5; 1 Peter 1:13; 4:7; 5:8; 1 Peter 5:8

RickD wrote:With your answers, it seems you're talking about an anti-Christ spirit.

RickD wrote:Instead of coming to God through Christ, you are claiming to come to God through cannabis.

I came to God through a determination to find out for myself if He really existed. After He had revealed Himself to me it became very clear there are 3 different kinds of people.

Those who see and are saved, those who remain blind and lost, and those deranged demonic souls who see and want to be damned.

Still waiting for your answers oldman...

To those following this thread:

The bible tells us plainly to do what here?

1 Th 5:21 NKJV, Test all things; hold fast what is good.

WE care called to test things and check them out. That is why it is good to have folks define words such as Love, and Spirit when discussing such matters as folks are here discussing. It is one thing to be vague and say, they define love as the same love that the Father has with the Son, etc, but hold on - that does not define at all what love means. That is ambiguous and can mean just about anything.

There are four Greek words used to define love and we only have one word. So does this refer to Storge, or Eros, or Phileo or Agape kinds of love? How does one define Agape, Phileo, Storge, Eros is important as well. Just tossing around the word love can be used as a smoke screen as well too, and used to deceive and distort well grounded Christian orthodox Christian doctrine.

The same goes with the word spirit - we are called to test the spirits as 1 John 4:1,2,3 NASB, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

That verse tells us why, there are false prophets and deceivers out there folks who claim they have found some new or even a better improved higher way to reach God. They will tell you, God led them to this new way and all should jump on in and join them because of the superior enlightenment they allegedly exhibit.

Recall Jesus himself stated this: John 14:6 NIV, Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'

Therefore, "Take a good look at yourselves to see if you are really believers. Test yourselves. Don't you realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Unless, of course, you fail the test!" 2 Co 13:5 NIrV

If someone comes and says that God led them to cannabis to find him - how can that square with Jesus' own words cited above? Fact is, it can't. You can rest assured that if something is telling a person that there is another way, cannabis, meth, libertas, some other way needed or to help one find god or another way to develop a deeper knowledge about god, then run from it. It is not from the Lord at all. Period.

No offense to oldman, but what was claimed by him does not stand the road map and testing tools the bible mentions to use. Also when one refuses to define or discuss what they mean by love or spirit in the context they use, that is another warning sign something will not square with the bible and the person is off base and needs to repent from the error of pride that binds their souls.

John 10:7, John 10:9, Acts 4:12, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 2:23, and read the verse quoted below...

"Some people run ahead of others. They don't follow the teaching of Christ. People like that don't belong to God. But those who follow the teaching of Christ belong to the Father and the Son. 10 Suppose someone comes to you and doesn't teach these truths. Then don't take him into your house. Don't welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his evil work." 2 John 1:9, 10, 11 NIrV

As for oldman , we don't know what the spirit is that he follows because it points to and adds another way to God.

John 14:6 explains plainly there is no other way to God other than Christ. God would not violate his own words on this matter and tell someone else they need cannabis, or anything else for that matter, to help or aid or enlighten their spiritual development.

Now, God can use addictions/drugs to bring a person to the end of themselves so that they turn to the Lord mentioned in John 14:6 and become saved. After that, they are required to turn away from these habits and become sober minded through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as the bible plainly teaches. To remain in these habits is to remain deceived and open to seducing spirits of this age...

"The Holy Spirit clearly says that in the last days some people will leave the faith. They will follow spirits that will fool them. They will believe things that demons will teach them. 2 Teachings like those come from liars who pretend to be what they are not. Their sense of what is right and wrong has been burned as if with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 NIrV

It is important to test the spirits...

So oldman, in Jesus name, what spirit is it that has led you to another way?

Are you willing to repent and turn away from this?

Only you can answer this...

James 5:19, 20
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B. W. wrote:To those following this thread:

The bible tells us plainly to do what here?

1 Th 5:21 NKJV, Test all things; hold fast what is good.

WE care called to test things and check them out. That is why it is good to have folks define words such as Love, and Spirit when discussing such matters as folks are here discussing. It is one thing to be vague and say, they define love as the same love that the Father has with the Son, etc, but hold on - that does not define at all what love means. That is ambiguous and can mean just about anything.

There are four Greek words used to define love and we only have one word. So does this refer to Storge, or Eros, or Phileo or Agape kinds of love? How does one define Agape, Phileo, Storge, Eros is important as well. Just tossing around the word love can be used as a smoke screen as well too, and used to deceive and distort well grounded Christian orthodox Christian doctrine.

Please let me try and explain a little more of what I have been led to understand is the greatest and purest form of love...

Have you ever noticed how a loving father loves his little child and cares for each move his child make as it grows older? Have you ever noticed the deep devotion a loving mother has for her newborn child? Have you ever noticed the joy in the bond of love that can so often be seen in little children and their loving parents? Have you ever noticed how loving parents are all too ready to make self-sacrifice for their children in order to keep them in love and to win their love forever?

What Greek word(s) would you use to define this love? This is what I mean when I speak of the love of the Father.


Now this Spirit of love manifested in the life and death of Jesus Christ is what I have faith in because this Spirit is all I can trust. This Spirit came through the eternal Father and the eternal Son and with the Father and the Son all creation is governed. What other spirit can I trust? Please go ahead and explain one if you think you can.



Jesus took a little child and had the child stand among them. Then he took the child in his arms. He said to them, “Anyone who welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me. And anyone who welcomes me doesn’t welcome only me but also the One who sent me.” Mark 9:36-37NIRV

Matthew 18:6-7 explains, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offences! For offences must come, but woe to that man by whom the offence comes!

Is not God the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Those who see and know this Spirit: “the greatest in the kingdom of heaven”, revealed so clearly for too short a time in little children who are believing in Jesus (Matthew 18:1-5NIV, KJV, Mark 9:33-37, Luke 9:46-48) and seek to confound, corrupt, torment and destroy this Spirit will never be saved, for there is nothing left to save them.

B. W. wrote:The same goes with the word spirit - we are called to test the spirits as 1 John 4:1,2,3 NASB, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

That verse tells us why, there are false prophets and deceivers out there folks who claim they have found some new or even a better improved higher way to reach God. They will tell you, God led them to this new way and all should jump on in and join them because of the superior enlightenment they allegedly exhibit.

I am not asking you or anyone else here to start using cannabis, I am simply giving you my testimony. I have already tried to warn that cannabis can be extremely dangerous at times if used carelessly but it can also be very helpful if used with caution and respect.

Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;” Genesis 1:29

B. W. wrote:Recall Jesus himself stated this: John 14:6 NIV, Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'

Therefore, "Take a good look at yourselves to see if you are really believers. Test yourselves. Don't you realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Unless, of course, you fail the test!" 2 Co 13:5 NIrV

If someone comes and says that God led them to cannabis to find him - how can that square with Jesus' own words cited above? Fact is, it can't. You can rest assured that if something is telling a person that there is another way, cannabis, meth, libertas, some other way needed or to help one find god or another way to develop a deeper knowledge about god, then run from it. It is not from the Lord at all. Period.

No one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ alone, but whether you like it or not, fact is, cannabis has helped me in my fallen state to see and reveal the truth more clearly. I am not saying you or anyone else here should start using it, I am simply giving you my testimony.

B. W. wrote:No offense to oldman, but what was claimed by him does not stand the road map and testing tools the bible mentions to use. Also when one refuses to define or discuss what they mean by love or spirit in the context they use, that is another warning sign something will not square with the bible and the person is off base and needs to repent from the error of pride that binds their souls.

You B.W. along with a few others here need to think long and hard about what you believe in, what you are saying and where you are heading.

B. W. wrote:John 10:7, John 10:9, Acts 4:12, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 2:23, and read the verse quoted below...

"Some people run ahead of others. They don't follow the teaching of Christ. People like that don't belong to God. But those who follow the teaching of Christ belong to the Father and the Son. 10 Suppose someone comes to you and doesn't teach these truths. Then don't take him into your house. Don't welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his evil work." 2 John 1:9, 10, 11 NIrV

As for oldman , we don't know what the spirit is that he follows

Do you know now?

B. W. wrote:because it points to and adds another way to God.

You need to think carefully about what you are saying and where you are heading.

B. W. wrote:John 14:6 explains plainly there is no other way to God other than Christ. God would not violate his own words on this matter and tell someone else they need cannabis, or anything else for that matter, to help or aid or enlighten their spiritual development.

Whether you like it or not, the infinite God of reason gave us cannabis, a natural plant to freely eat...

Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;” Genesis 1:29

...and I have experienced it's mind expanding properties.

B. W. wrote:Now, God can use addictions/drugs to bring a person to the end of themselves so that they turn to the Lord mentioned in John 14:6 and become saved. After that, they are required to turn away from these habits and become sober minded

I have been using cannabis on and off now for over 4 decades and during that time there have been long periods, sometimes years when I have abstained from it. Normal reasonable people can quite easily live without cannabis if or when they so desire.

Do you still think I am not sober minded?

B. W. wrote:through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as the bible plainly teaches. To remain in these habits is to remain deceived and open to seducing spirits of this age...

Do you still believe a seducing spirit is in control of me?

B. W. wrote:"The Holy Spirit clearly says that in the last days some people will leave the faith. They will follow spirits that will fool them. They will believe things that demons will teach them. 2 Teachings like those come from liars who pretend to be what they are not. Their sense of what is right and wrong has been burned as if with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 NIrV

The last days began nearly 2000 years ago after the redeeming work of God had been completed. Ever since then every Christian church has suffered it's fair share of self-righteous hypocrites and corruption.

B. W. wrote:It is important to test the spirits...

So oldman, in Jesus name, what spirit is it that has led you to another way?

Carefully read from the very beginning all I have written here and you will see more clearly what I mean by “truth”, by “love”, by the essence and character of “the Spirit of truth”, and by the only way of salvation.

B. W. wrote:Are you willing to repent and turn away from this?

Don't be absurd, I cannot repent and turn away from what I clearly see is truth or from helping to reveal the truth to the world.

Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;” Genesis 1:29

oldman wrote:
Whether you like it or not, the infinite God of reason gave us cannabis, a natural plant to freely eat...

Oldman,
Try eating a couple of seeds from the castor plant, which by your argument, God freely gave us to eat, and tell me how that works out for you.

oldman said about cannabis:
...and I have experienced it's mind expanding properties.

This tells me all I need to know...

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:To those following this thread:

The bible tells us plainly to do what here?

1 Th 5:21 NKJV, Test all things; hold fast what is good.

WE care called to test things and check them out. That is why it is good to have folks define words such as Love, and Spirit when discussing such matters as folks are here discussing. It is one thing to be vague and say, they define love as the same love that the Father has with the Son, etc, but hold on - that does not define at all what love means. That is ambiguous and can mean just about anything.

There are four Greek words used to define love and we only have one word. So does this refer to Storge, or Eros, or Phileo or Agape kinds of love? How does one define Agape, Phileo, Storge, Eros is important as well. Just tossing around the word love can be used as a smoke screen as well too, and used to deceive and distort well grounded Christian orthodox Christian doctrine.

Please let me try and explain a little more of what I have been led to understand is the greatest and purest form of love...

Have you ever noticed how a loving father loves his little child and cares for each move his child make as it grows older? Have you ever noticed the deep devotion a loving mother has for her newborn child? Have you ever noticed the joy in the bond of love that can so often be seen in little children and their loving parents? Have you ever noticed how loving parents are all too ready to make self-sacrifice for their children in order to keep them in love and to win their love forever?

What Greek word(s) would you use to define this love? This is what I mean when I speak of the love of the Father.

The relationship you defined would fall under the definition of Storge. See the wiki - definition below...

Storge (στοργή storgē) means "affection" in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family. quoted from this Link

What you describe are natural affections ... therefore - storge and not agape.

Agape is a far more deeper word in meaning and tone... as it pertains to those outside the natural family as well too, thus moving beyond mere storge, in a very deep unfathomable covenantial sense that also rebukes, chastens, leads, guides, directs, nurtures, fosters, edifies, trains, equips - in an unconditional manner toward the one joined in covenant...

Your definition lacks this and the words the divine Godhead Trinity uses is agape...

oldman wrote:Now this Spirit of love manifested in the life and death of Jesus Christ is what I have faith in because this Spirit is all I can trust. This Spirit came through the eternal Father and the eternal Son and with the Father and the Son all creation is governed. What other spirit can I trust? Please go ahead and explain one if you think you can.

Jesus took a little child and had the child stand among them. Then he took the child in his arms. He said to them, “Anyone who welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me. And anyone who welcomes me doesn’t welcome only me but also the One who sent me.” Mark 9:36-37NIRV

Matthew 18:6-7 explains, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offences! For offences must come, but woe to that man by whom the offence comes!

Is not God the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Those who see and know this Spirit: “the greatest in the kingdom of heaven”, revealed so clearly for too short a time in little children who are believing in Jesus (Matthew 18:1-5NIV, KJV, Mark 9:33-37, Luke 9:46-48) and seek to confound, corrupt, torment and destroy this Spirit will never be saved, for there is nothing left to save them.

When the Gadarene confronted Jesus in Luke 8:26-34 - the man's many spirits were tormented and Jesus cast them out. Therefore, you argument is spurious. Also Hebrews 12:5-13, reveals that love - agape -- rebukes and chastens those in error. What you cite, is contrary to the word and is a clear attempt to pit the bible against itself. In fact, when Jesus was tempted in Luke 4, the devil used the same tactic as you are using...

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:The same goes with the word spirit - we are called to test the spirits as 1 John 4:1,2,3 NASB, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

That verse tells us why, there are false prophets and deceivers out there folks who claim they have found some new or even a better improved higher way to reach God. They will tell you, God led them to this new way and all should jump on in and join them because of the superior enlightenment they allegedly exhibit.

I am not asking you or anyone else here to start using cannabis, I am simply giving you my testimony. I have already tried to warn that cannabis can be extremely dangerous at times if used carelessly but it can also be very helpful if used with caution and respect.

Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;” Genesis 1:29

Again, when Jesus was tempted in Luke 4, the devil used the same tactic as you are using...pitting bible verses against themselves. Jesus clearly stated that only he is the way to God. The Lord would not violate his own word and tell you to use cannabis. Instead - his great agape would rebuke you of your error in order to draw you back to the real one who can save your soul.

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:Recall Jesus himself stated this: John 14:6 NIV, Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'

Therefore, "Take a good look at yourselves to see if you are really believers. Test yourselves. Don't you realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Unless, of course, you fail the test!" 2 Co 13:5 NIrV

If someone comes and says that God led them to cannabis to find him - how can that square with Jesus' own words cited above? Fact is, it can't. You can rest assured that if something is telling a person that there is another way, cannabis, meth, libertas, some other way needed or to help one find god or another way to develop a deeper knowledge about god, then run from it. It is not from the Lord at all. Period.

No one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ alone, but whether you like it or not, fact is, cannabis has helped me in my fallen state to see and reveal the truth more clearly. I am not saying you or anyone else here should start using it, I am simply giving you my testimony.

Again, the devil uses the same tactic as you are using...pitting bible verses against themselves. Jesus clearly stated that only he is the way to God. The Lord would not violate his own word and tell you to use cannabis. The True Holy Spirit would rebuke you of your error in order to draw you back to the real Lord of all who, alone, can save your soul.

See how you defend cannabis? What lengths have you taken to defend it? You don't defend Jesus Christ in the same manner - do you? Your god is cannabis and the spirits that it infected you with. These drugs were used by shamans to conjure spirit guides...

How many do you have?

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:No offense to oldman, but what was claimed by him does not stand the road map and testing tools the bible mentions to use. Also when one refuses to define or discuss what they mean by love or spirit in the context they use, that is another warning sign something will not square with the bible and the person is off base and needs to repent from the error of pride that binds their souls.

You B.W. along with a few others here need to think long and hard about what you believe in, what you are saying and where you are heading.

I do, and have, I can judge you by the bible and the call to test the spirits. I also comprehend the nature of God's agape and it is pleading to you to repent of you error and being taken captive. You love cannabis more than the Lord Almighty, if not, then, you would agree that Jesus is the only way and no other way exist. You would submit to his chastening, repent, and stop trying to justify your infestation that came from decades of cannabis use.

Cannabis is your idol and you are in violation of the Ten C's of having and serving this idol and attempting to entrap others here on this forum to serve your idol.

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:John 10:7, John 10:9, Acts 4:12, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 2:23, and read the verse quoted below...

"Some people run ahead of others. They don't follow the teaching of Christ. People like that don't belong to God. But those who follow the teaching of Christ belong to the Father and the Son. 10 Suppose someone comes to you and doesn't teach these truths. Then don't take him into your house. Don't welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his evil work." 2 John 1:9, 10, 11 NIrV

As for oldman , we don't know what the spirit is that he follows

Do you know now?

Yes, it is not the Holy Spirit at all, is it? You would bow to Jesus Christ and admit that He is the only way to God the Father and has no need to use cannabis to help, after all, God is all powerful enough to do this, he doesn't need help of cannabis - another way.

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:because it points to and adds another way to God.

You need to think carefully about what you are saying and where you are heading.

I know where I am going and who I serve and He is far greater than the one in you... as it is written: "Every knee in heaven and on earth and under the earth will bow to worship him. Everyone's mouth will say that Jesus Christ is Lord. And God the Father will receive the glory." Philippians 2:10-11 NIrV

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:John 14:6 explains plainly there is no other way to God other than Christ. God would not violate his own words on this matter and tell someone else they need cannabis, or anything else for that matter, to help or aid or enlighten their spiritual development.

Whether you like it or not, the infinite God of reason gave us cannabis, a natural plant to freely eat...

Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;” Genesis 1:29

...and I have experienced it's mind expanding properties.

You, like the serpent of old, misquote bible verses in an attempt to pit God's word against it self. You glorify not Jesus but seek to justify cannabis - to have others take what shamans use to conjure spirit guides with. The bible tells us to avoid this practice and yet - you espouse it.

"Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" Luke 4:8 NASB

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:Now, God can use addictions/drugs to bring a person to the end of themselves so that they turn to the Lord mentioned in John 14:6 and become saved. After that, they are required to turn away from these habits and become sober minded

I have been using cannabis on and off now for over 4 decades and during that time there have been long periods, sometimes years when I have abstained from it. Normal reasonable people can quite easily live without cannabis if or when they so desire.

Do you still think I am not sober minded?

Yes... unequivocally...

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit as the bible plainly teaches. To remain in these habits is to remain deceived and open to seducing spirits of this age...

Do you still believe a seducing spirit is in control of me?

Yes and undoubtedly so...

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:"The Holy Spirit clearly says that in the last days some people will leave the faith. They will follow spirits that will fool them. They will believe things that demons will teach them. 2 Teachings like those come from liars who pretend to be what they are not. Their sense of what is right and wrong has been burned as if with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 NIrV

The last days began nearly 2000 years ago after the redeeming work of God had been completed. Ever since then every Christian church has suffered it's fair share of self-righteous hypocrites and corruption.

This answer, proves my last statement correct....

The devil is called the accuser of the brethren for a reason.

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:It is important to test the spirits...

So oldman, in Jesus name, what spirit is it that has led you to another way?

Carefully read from the very beginning all I have written here and you will see more clearly what I mean by “truth”, by “love”, by the essence and character of “the Spirit of truth”, and by the only way of salvation.

You seek only to justify cannabis use and do not point to Christ. You state that cannabis leads you to God and the bible states only through Christ Jesus, can one come to the Father. Your conclusion and doctrine does not line up with the bible...not what Jesus says. Your salvation is in cannabis and not Jesus... You pit the bible against itself in the terms of love and truth, yet, you deny the truth and love by loving cannabis more than God.

You do so in order to have us here, on this Forum, to live up to our own standards, that is why you misquote bible verses and pit biblical truths against each other. We, who are born again Christians, have no need of cannabis, and only need Christ Jesus alone. We have found eternal life and are taught love and truth and abide in what He alone teaches us. You would do well to repent and trun to Christ for the forgiveness of sins, especially the one of misrepresenting God and leading others to the idol you serve.

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:Are you willing to repent and turn away from this?

Don't be absurd, I cannot repent and turn away from what I clearly see is truth or from helping to reveal the truth to the world.

Yes you can, you do not know the power of God that can set you free from deception. Jesus died upon that cross, and by his shed blood, grants us the authority and power to expel idols in our lives that keep us from serving the the true and only Lord of Host.

You are denying this truth and his love that seeks to chasten you, in order to save your very soul. If you were of the Holy Spirit - you would testify that Christ does not need cannabis to aid you, To say otherwise is a direct affront to the power of the sovereignty of God. How - by having God bow to the power of cannabis. That is the truth about the doctrine you present and love more than the Lord. Yes, you must repent.

B. W. wrote:

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:It is important to test the spirits...

So oldman, in Jesus name, what spirit is it that has led you to another way?

Carefully read from the very beginning all I have written here and you will see more clearly what I mean by “truth”, by “love”, by the essence and character of “the Spirit of truth”, and by the only way of salvation.

You seek only to justify cannabis use and do not point to Christ.

It is clear now we are not going to agree on the truth. So be it, see you on Judgement Day

oldman wrote: It is clear now we are not going to agree on the truth. So be it, see you on Judgement Day

Judgement Day...I like that movie: good escapism but a little gory. I've seen it several times. Is B.W. Arnold Swartzeneggar?!

FL

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:

oldman wrote:

B. W. wrote:It is important to test the spirits...

So oldman, in Jesus name, what spirit is it that has led you to another way?

Carefully read from the very beginning all I have written here and you will see more clearly what I mean by “truth”, by “love”, by the essence and character of “the Spirit of truth”, and by the only way of salvation.

You seek only to justify cannabis use and do not point to Christ.

It is clear now we are not going to agree on the truth. So be it, see you on Judgement Day

Oldman, please notice that your tone is not in line with scripture:

2 Tim 2:24,25, 26, The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. NASB

Turn to the true Christ Jesus and flee the cannabis loving one - repent and find your true heart and all that the Lord actually desires for you. Do not hang on to your sin tighter than a politician holding on to a Lobbyist's wallet...
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B. W. wrote: No offense to oldman, but what was claimed by him does not stand the road map and testing tools the bible mentions to use. Also when one refuses to define or discuss what they mean by love or spirit in the context they use, that is another warning sign something will not square with the bible and the person is off base and needs to repent from the error of pride that binds their souls.

oldman wrote:You B.W. along with a few others here need to think long and hard about what you believe in, what you are saying and where you are heading.

I do, and have, I can judge you by the bible

You judge me by your interpretation of the Bible without the Spirit of truth as your guide. Like the Scribes and Pharisees of old you have shown your contempt for the Spirit of truth. If you had the Spirit of truth then you would rejoice to explain the meaning of this Spirit to all the world but all you have is your contempt.



Throughout this discussion this is what I have been explaining here concerning God, and in particular the Spirit of truth and the only way of salvation. And this is what you have constantly either ignored or shown your contempt for...


From the Father and the Son came their perfect and eternal love for each other. Their love is their endless joy in their pure and perfect caring, sharing and giving to each other all that they are and all that they care to create. The Son came from the Father and He naturally looks up to His Father, but without the Father's only eternal child there would be no possibility for an eternal God known as "love", "God is love", as Scripture clearly proclaims, and this love cannot exist with one person alone. This love, this God called love, needs at least two free thinking reasoning minds. Through the eternal Son the Father became the eternal giver of joy in perfect caring and sharing, and through the eternal Father His Son became the eternal receiver and giver of this same Spirit. Without the eternal Son there would be no such Spirit of pure and perfect eternal love; and it is this eternal Spirit that comes through the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son, all creation is governed. This Spirit naturally embraces all knowledge and wisdom and would mean nothing without being the heart or the innermost ruling character of a person. It is this Spirit who will live and rule in all who will value Him above all others. Father Son and Holy Spirit are dependent upon each other for being what they are. All three are of equal value.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ reveals the meaning of His Spirit to fallen man, the love of the Father is the heart of His personality, His love is what governs His reasoning. His love given to and revealed to us through His Son is His righteousness, and this eternal Spirit of pure and perfect love that embraces all knowledge and wisdom is the Spirit of truth: There is no other Spirit of truth, this is obvious: Only the Spirit who is faithful to love unto death will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us.

The only true and perfect Spirit that came through the Father and the Son was also given to the angels who came after, and then to the first man Adam; but through pride and the desire to experience the unknown and gain a greater wisdom, this Spirit died in many of the angels and was eventually killed off in Adam also. Even so, by the grace of the Lord Jesus, this Spirit is being born in man again. All who are given faith in this Spirit will naturally have faith in the Son. All who are of God have faith in this Spirit. Whoever will not have faith in this Spirit will remain a liar.



Loving parents of the world care for each move their children make as they grow older. There is a joy in the bond of love that can so often be seen in children and their loving parents, and such parents are all too ready to make self-sacrifice for their children in order to keep them in love and to win their love forever. This love is only in part, a reflection of the pure and perfect eternal love that comes through the eternal Father for His eternal Son, and for the lost souls of this world.




“Jesus took a little child and had the child stand among them. Then he took the child in his arms. He said to them, “Anyone who welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me. And anyone who welcomes me doesn’t welcome only me but also the One who sent me.” Mark 9:36-37NIRV 

Matthew 18:6-7 explains, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offences! For offences must come, but woe to that man by whom the offence comes!

Is not God the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Yes, and those who see and know this Spirit: “the greatest in the kingdom of heaven”, revealed so clearly for too short a time in little children who are believing in Jesus (Matthew 18:1-5, Mark 9:33-37, Luke 9:46-48) and seek to corrupt, torment or destroy this Spirit, will never be saved for there is nothing left to save them, they condemn themselves. Matthew 18:6-7 explains, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offences! For offences must come, but woe to that man by whom the offence comes! 
Again, Matthew 12:31-32 explains, "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come". 

The Father's Spirit then given to each of His chosen gives new life by transforming their corrupted spirits back into perfect holiness, just as Adam and Eve were before the Spirit of truth in them was confounded and corrupted into something evil by their desire to know evil. The Spirit of God therefore will live in all His chosen ones and ultimately make their unique personalities perfect in knowledge, wisdom and love forever, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit given by the Father will never be broken again.

When the Son of God suffered and died for us He revealed to us His self sacrificing Spirit of perfect love: faithful to love unto death and the only way to overcome our old corrupt spirit of lies and delusion. By His finished work He has revealed in full the essence and character of the Spirit of truth, and we shall only be trusted to live with God forever when He knows we will faithfully give our lives for His sake, “For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25). Saving faith in this atoning God then is all we need. We who have faith in this God will see His promised paradise where the free and infinite imagination of the Spirit of truth is the infinite realm of everything. Where this Spirit is never threatened or offended again there will be endless joy in free and endless creation.


Only the pure and faithful Spirit that is faithful to love unto death, will have no reason to deceive and offend any of us, such is the Spirit that is revealed by the Lord Jesus and by His true followers. This Jesus could not have lied because in His Spirit there can be seen no reason to lie. Recorded history tells us the faithful followers who knew Jesus were in the end prepared to be persecuted to death, even to be tortured to death rather than live a lie and deny what they had witnessed: His commandments and doctrine, the love and wisdom, the miracles, the promises, the crucifixion and the resurrected Jesus Christ. Despite all the efforts of hypocrites, malicious liars and antichrists, this Spirit lives on in all His true followers still. This Spirit is the only proven conveyor of truth simply because NO ONE can even begin to explain and alternative in which all can trust.





After repeated requests to the moderators here to explain what they believe is the essence and character of the Spirit of truth, they have not only constantly ignored and/or refused those requests, but have repeatedly criticised what I have written, even condemning it as a work of evil.

See you all soon,

Rob