Re: A brick wall.
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:05 am
Silver, I understand completely what you are saying. We are very similar in very many ways. I also came to God through intellectual means. And above that, I always prided myself on having the right answer for every objection. That being said, I have been deeply humbled these past few years. I once thought for sure that I could defeat evolution, now I see that there are still huge issues with the theory, but that they could be solved, and if they are it doesn't have to defeat my faith because Genesis says nothing about how God created the animals "according to their kind", and many wonderful and faithful Christians throughout the years have accepted evolution (C.S. Lewis comes to mind).
Moving to the multiverse.... I put up the quotes from Anthony Flew to show that even if the multiverse is true it doesn't eliminate the need for a creator, on the contrary, in his mind it exacerbated the need for a creator. Keep in mind that he wrote that book before there was any evidence of the multiverse, but just much speculation. He didn't think at all that it eliminated the need for God. Also I chose Flew because he was not a Christian . That may seem weird, but often Christians are accused of bending science to meet their needs. Here was a stark atheist who thought that the laws of nature required an explanation, and that explanation was God. I highly recommend Flew's book "There is A God" if you have not read it.
Also, the basic proofs of logic that no doubt led you to God in the first place still hold. It is still impossible to transverse an infinite, this applies to time as well as to causes. Something had to be uncaused, and that uncaused thing had to act of its own free will to create, and that act of creation had to be outside of time or else we never would have gotten from negative infinity time to now, there always could have been one more moment before this one, and so on. Also there is the issue of having an infinite number of actual things. William Craig has famously expounded on the idea of infinity as well: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forming- ... e-addition
I am not the smartest person in the world and a lot of my doubts come from the fact that most of the smartest people in the world disagree with my views. But we should be humble and recognize that for most of human history the smartest people thought our universe was eternal, and they were wrong. Now, in an effort to save materialism, they have to posit an infinite regress of causes and an infinite number of universes which even seems to contradict what the other really smart folks are saying (BVG theorem). Also, the really smart folk over at Biologos have a page about the fine tuning of the universe in which they briefly discuss inflation and the multiverse, basically coming to the conclusion that inflation explains away our fine tuning by replacing it with more fine tuning http://biologos.org/questions/fine-tuning .
Then, against this backdrop of the intellectual we have Paul in 1st Corinthians 1:18-24:
" For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1:19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will thwart the cleverness of the intelligent.” 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the expert in the Mosaic law? Where is the debater of this age? Has God not made the wisdom of the world foolish? 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching. 1:22 For Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks ask for wisdom, 1:23 but we preach about a crucified Christ, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles. 1:24 But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. "
As for your personal encounter with God, I am still praying for it. I don't know in what way God will reveal himself to you, but If my experience holds true for you it will be very personal and probably subtle. I hope when it happens you are willing to share with us. Keep in mind from my own experiences this doesn't eliminate doubts, but it does help to keep you going in those dark moments.
**This is based on my understanding of current multiverse theories, if I am mistaken, please correct me. Also, I understand that we are supposed to be just one link in an infinite chain, but that is impossible based on my understanding of Dr. Craig's argument.
Moving to the multiverse.... I put up the quotes from Anthony Flew to show that even if the multiverse is true it doesn't eliminate the need for a creator, on the contrary, in his mind it exacerbated the need for a creator. Keep in mind that he wrote that book before there was any evidence of the multiverse, but just much speculation. He didn't think at all that it eliminated the need for God. Also I chose Flew because he was not a Christian . That may seem weird, but often Christians are accused of bending science to meet their needs. Here was a stark atheist who thought that the laws of nature required an explanation, and that explanation was God. I highly recommend Flew's book "There is A God" if you have not read it.
Also, the basic proofs of logic that no doubt led you to God in the first place still hold. It is still impossible to transverse an infinite, this applies to time as well as to causes. Something had to be uncaused, and that uncaused thing had to act of its own free will to create, and that act of creation had to be outside of time or else we never would have gotten from negative infinity time to now, there always could have been one more moment before this one, and so on. Also there is the issue of having an infinite number of actual things. William Craig has famously expounded on the idea of infinity as well: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forming- ... e-addition
I am not the smartest person in the world and a lot of my doubts come from the fact that most of the smartest people in the world disagree with my views. But we should be humble and recognize that for most of human history the smartest people thought our universe was eternal, and they were wrong. Now, in an effort to save materialism, they have to posit an infinite regress of causes and an infinite number of universes which even seems to contradict what the other really smart folks are saying (BVG theorem). Also, the really smart folk over at Biologos have a page about the fine tuning of the universe in which they briefly discuss inflation and the multiverse, basically coming to the conclusion that inflation explains away our fine tuning by replacing it with more fine tuning http://biologos.org/questions/fine-tuning .
Then, against this backdrop of the intellectual we have Paul in 1st Corinthians 1:18-24:
" For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1:19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will thwart the cleverness of the intelligent.” 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the expert in the Mosaic law? Where is the debater of this age? Has God not made the wisdom of the world foolish? 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching. 1:22 For Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks ask for wisdom, 1:23 but we preach about a crucified Christ, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles. 1:24 But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. "
As for your personal encounter with God, I am still praying for it. I don't know in what way God will reveal himself to you, but If my experience holds true for you it will be very personal and probably subtle. I hope when it happens you are willing to share with us. Keep in mind from my own experiences this doesn't eliminate doubts, but it does help to keep you going in those dark moments.
**This is based on my understanding of current multiverse theories, if I am mistaken, please correct me. Also, I understand that we are supposed to be just one link in an infinite chain, but that is impossible based on my understanding of Dr. Craig's argument.
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