Evidence for God from Science

Mazzy wrote:

Starhunter wrote: So 1260 days is actually 1260 years.

To prove this time period and analysis, the other four chapters of Daniel were written, bringing out 9 time spans which all tie in with each other to put it beyond question and doubt.

It is interesting that the Papacy ruled from 538 AD to 1798 AD which is 1260 years.

The papacy has ruled Catholicism from St Linus (app 64-79AD), or before with St Peter, until today which is around 1950 years.

The papacy, although having times of great influence and power in Europe has never ruled all nations, eg China & the Arab states.

Sorry, Mazzy, I should have specified political power as opposed to religious rule only.
Under the Justinian Code, in 538 AD the Catholic empire, began to war against other nations over issues of doctrine.
The Ostrogoths were one of three kingdoms overthrown by the Papacy.
The political power of the RC church came to an end in 1798 under Napoleon, whose general imprisoned the Pope.

The nations that were rising when the Papacy was falling, were France, and in the background America - the haven for pilgrims fleeing the Papacy.

These two nations are described as coming out of the bottomless pit - a bloody revolution, Rev 11:7, and the other out of the earth - a place which was not colonized. Rev 13:11. This beast with lamb like horns, did not rise out of the sea like the others. The sea or waters represent large populations or centralized populations. Rev 17:15.

There is one more modern beast, which remains unidentified. Which world power is symbolized by the color red and is somehow connected to atheistic France, with its beginnings, or the bottomless pit? And does this red beast still exist today? Rev 17:8.

Starhunter wrote:Sorry, Mazzy, I should have specified political power as opposed to religious rule only.
Under the Justinian Code, in 538 AD the Catholic empire, began to war against other nations over issues of doctrine.
The Ostrogoths were one of three kingdoms overthrown by the Papacy.
The political power of the RC church came to an end in 1798 under Napoleon, whose general imprisoned the Pope.

The nations that were rising when the Papacy was falling, were France, and in the background America - the haven for pilgrims fleeing the Papacy.

These two nations are described as coming out of the bottomless pit - a bloody revolution, Rev 11:7, and the other out of the earth - a place which was not colonized. Rev 13:11. This beast with lamb like horns, did not rise out of the sea like the others. The sea or waters represent large populations or centralized populations. Rev 17:15.

There is one more modern beast, which remains unidentified. Which world power is symbolized by the color red and is somehow connected to atheistic France, with its beginnings, or the bottomless pit? And does this red beast still exist today? Rev 17:8.

You said "It is interesting that the Papacy ruled from 538 AD to 1798 AD which is 1260 years."

If you are suggesting Popes 'ruled' during this Ostragothic period, then this link suggests popes 'ruled' long before 538AD, more like from 493AD.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogothic_Papacy

The prophecy denotes, three horns plucked up, before the blasphemous horn rules.

Among the 'barbarian' nations which took over the Roman empire, three resisted the authority and teachings of the ever strengthening church, these were done away with, and Ostrogoths had to be driven out of Rome.
The Heruli fell in 493, the Vandals fell to the arms of Belisarius in 534, and the Goths in 538 AD, until then it was not possible for the Justinian Edict of 533 AD, to make the Bishop of Rome head of all the churches, to take effect.

Now the church had full state power to do as it pleased.

But if we take the end of Papal power in 1798, and subtract 1260 years, we get the same answer, not 493 AD.

Starhunter wrote:The prophecy denotes, three horns plucked up, before the blasphemous horn rules.

Among the 'barbarian' nations which took over the Roman empire, three resisted the authority and teachings of the ever strengthening church, these were done away with, and Ostrogoths had to be driven out of Rome.
The Heruli fell in 493, the Vandals fell to the arms of Belisarius in 534, and the Goths in 538 AD, until then it was not possible for the Justinian Edict of 533 AD, to make the Bishop of Rome head of all the churches, to take effect.

Now the church had full state power to do as it pleased.

But if we take the end of Papal power in 1798, and subtract 1260 years, we get the same answer, not 493 AD.

Without going back to look I remember your saying that the Papacy reflected Babylon and continues to be a ruling power, not one that ended in 1798. If Papal power ended in 1798, then the Papacy and Catholicism has nothing to do with Babylon or the whore or the beast, if one is claiming Daniel or Revelation has application today.

Starhunter, you are free to belive whatever you choose. The problem with getting us all to also believe it is that we know people can offer all sorts of reasoning to support their opinion of times and dates. The JWs, Mormons etc etc all have done it with different reasonings to justify what they want to believe about dates. What you say is interesting and thanks for sharing. I am particularly interested in prophecy's relevance today, if any.

What I believe is that Jesus said NO ONE knows times and dates, not even Him. We are to be prepared because we are to follow Christ regardless, every day.

This discussion around Daniel is only if one believes Daniels prophecies has not expired in Jesus. For me Daniels ch7's'everlasting kingdom' was the church/congregation of God, started with Jesus, and that even hades would not overturn. This to me means that hades would try, this being a prophecied apostacy.

Regarding Daniel ch7, I believe it ended with Jesus resurrection and return to ultimate power in 70ad, 'the church/congregation' of God. This, the church, was further prophecied elsewhere to go off into apostasy and then return in the last days. We are beginning to see this turn around. However, it could take years, decades or millenium to reach the standard God is waiting for before the second judgement spoken to in Revelation ch20.

I believe when Jesus said 'this generation' will see the fulfillment of all of what he spoke about, I think Jesus actually meant what he said. If the apostles are still asleep in the grave, then Jesus fooled them into believing his coming would be 'soon' as in the common use of that the term 'soon'. As it was the destruction of the Temple took around 40 years and already many believers would have started to reason that what Jesus said was rubbish. Thankfully 38-40 years did mean many of the generation alive when Jesus was crucified were still alive when Jesus fulfilled prophecy around the destruction of the temple and opened the gates of heaven. This was Armageddon. What happened that was worse than anything that had occured is that from this time people could be eternally destroyed and the earth would go off into a spiritual darkness and loose faith in God. That is the worse thing that could happen and worse than a world wide flood that left 8 people alive. Only the final judgement after a resurrection is yet to happen.

If I had to try to resolve prophecy I would lean on Revelation and Mathew ch24. I believe we are in the Millenial rule, and one thousand years is not literal. I actually believe that everyone that has not gone to heaven or been destroyed for their utter evil, will be resurrected to earth in some final judgement. At this time there will not be any need for faith as with what will be happening or have happended, people will be clear that there is a God and He is sitting in final judgement. Non believers at this time will be feint out of fear of what is coming upon them, in a way that has never been seen before, including Noahs time. These resurrected to earth (likely through rebirth) may well not be able to achieve the same 'glory' in heaven as those that got to heaven by the front door and having faith in Jesus and they will have to choose beteen repentence or eternal destruction. That is pretty heavy stuff!!! .

In the end what I believe is also out of the mainstream and I can support it with text as well as anyone can support their own reasoning within many different faiths. So the bottome line is I have no real clue as the bible states we won't, and I just like to think about it, the same as everyone else. When the final judgement actually begins those that are 'watching' will know and won't be afraid.

Well said, Mazzy, we don't want to loose our focus on Christ.

Kingdoms will come and go, but God's kingdom will remain forever.