Given the fact that no one has the right to sin, and given the fact that homosexual behavior is sinful, it is obviously impossible to argue that society, much less the Church, should endorse it by granting it the status of marriage. So the question becomes, at what level do we, as a society, deal with homosexual behavior? Sodomy laws would be the third and highest level. Social standards would point to social ostracization , for instance. Or we could just leave it as a strictly private matter and encourage people to overcome it through faith and their virtues. Note that if we deal with this at the second level, that includes doing so at the first; and if we deal with it at the third level, that includes dealing with it at both the first and second.
My own view is that this should be handled at the level of social standards. We should not make sodomy a legal offense. But it should be socially unacceptable, a shameful thing.
And that is precisely my point...you are shaming someone on something they have really no control of and over...how effective is that? A child who is born gay, even if you leave him in a population of 1 million heterosexuals, that child is gonna come out gay and the vice versa is true for heterosexuals. Your straight child isn't gonna turn gay just because he is raised among gay people. Gay children come normally from houses of heterosexuals. And what if they are created by God this way? What if we find that yes sexual orientation takes place in wombs? How natural or unnatural is that? And how adequate is the
natural law for this type of thing. Homosexuality is a sin, the bible clearly says it, I have no moral confusion in that regard. But the natural law view is inadequate to address this because it assumes that it is out of sinful lust that such unions take place. The problem is not "sodomy is not natural" since that doesn't happen in female-female unions, the problem is of same-sex being together in all and every way, families aren't shaped this way. And I agree with you that such union is unnatural, but I also contend that it is not anything to be shameful of by the society I can understand it being shameful in the church but outside of church its only odd...but why shameful?
Outside of church our biblical values don't necessarily apply. Your definition of right or wrong is a biblical definition, its not democratic in nature, its theocratic...but outside the system is democratic or non-theocratic to be precise, that system has its entire own structure of assigning values.
Muslims do marriage, every other religious or non-religious groups do marriage, marriage is not exclusive to Christianity. We can regulate marriage inside the church but outside of it, that is a different problem.
Don't get me wrong Jac, I clearly see the problems the church face...I am not advocating that we allow gay marriage in church, but outside of church, I really don't see why not. And really don't see what we lose, and I do see what we gain, some trust, some confidence, may be some openness to the gospel, may be less hostility.
The real question, which in fact takes priority above all, is where do gays stand in the kingdom of God?...as a teacher, and outreach guy this is my supreme concern. At the end of the day, I want to save a gay teen, a gay lady, a gay guy, why not...and my question is what is their status in the church, are they saved brothers and sisters or are they people who are not welcome in the church but are saved nonetheless? Marriage is just a trivial matter in the bigger picture. The bigger picture is we alienate the gay community, or do we reach out to them?
My personal interaction has left me wondering a lot about this...gay and christian are at complete odds but should they have to be? And at what cost? At any forum, Christians have stereotype that leaves gay people quite scared for their own self respect. and yet somewhere I do believe that Gays if they believe in Christ, shall be saved, regardless of their sexual orientation.
Just some time ago, I held a gay teenager, crying over my shoulder because he was so willing to commit suicide that his family was pushing him to marry a girl and they would not accept him. What do I tell this guy? Stop being gay?...believe me I tried, didn't help. Stop having thoughts of sex? that hasn't helped either. Moreover he is a christian, I don't doubt he loves God. And my question is where does this boy stand? I can tell him that this is sin but I get blank stares in return, his obvious question was he can't be with a girl, that repels him and I can't blame him because I feel the same if I am to be asked to be gay.
And my concern is for asexual and transgender people too.